One Less Thug In Jackson

[donia]

don't go into someone's house that isn't yours with mal-intent...don't take something that isn't yours from someone else...don't "thug" (white, black, yellow, red or green...doesn't matter) and you won't have to worry about jail or being sentenced too harshly.

[teul2]

It has its place, but it can go too far.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/controversial- ... d=24710849

"Don't do the crime if you can't do the time" comes to mind.

[mudsucker]

the felony murder rules says that if you are committing a felony and someone dies, you are responsible for the death. Most forms of murder require an intent to commit death. Felony murder only requires the intent to commit the felony. During the course of the felony, any homicide will be considered murder, whether it’s intentional or accidental. guy breaks in my house. in the chaos that ensues, i "accidentally" shoot my wife. the burglar goes up on capital murder charge for death of my wife, even though he didn't shoot her.

in this instance both guys are involved in the kidnapping, which is an inherently dangerous felony. during the kidnapping, dirty dee was killed. the other guy involved in the kidnapping is legally culpable for the death of his buddy.

the purpose for the felony murder rule is to deter people from engaging in felonies knowing that they can be liable for the actions of their partners.

personally, i think it is a good law to have.

"accidentally" shoot my wife. Two birds, one stone!

[mudsucker]

GuttaLife. Is that the urban equalivent of SaltLife? Raise'em right, Jackfria!

GuttaLife Dee is dead. Short live the GuttaLifers!

[cwink]

I have been out on the range all weekend and just now getting caught up with the story.. There will be lots of people in the gun community around here that know him and on another message board they are saying (and rightly so) not to name, names and discuss to much.. Regardless of the situation, taking someone's life has got to weigh on your mind. Lot's of people want to know why he "let the other one get away". But IMO he did the right thing and didn't fire what may have been a retreating threat.

I think it will be interesting in the long run to hear what he thought he did wrong and what he thought he did right in this situation from a self defense perspective.

I work from home and I always carry whenever I leave the house, but over the last few months I have started home carrying too.. Now I keep it on from Dawn till I get in bed for the night..

lets say he did shoot the other one but he survived but is paralyzed. It is proven he was running away and was shot in the back and was no longer a threat and possibly he wasn't armed but the one that is dead was armed. How does this play out in the courtroom?? Remember this is Hinds county. The shooter ends up no longer being a victim especially when Al gets hold of it. Just wouldn't like my chances on that jury with all that's happening today. Someone has to be the sacrifice. Baltimore is a prime example. Just seems the criminals have more rights than honest folks these days.

I do care what the law says, I hope I never have to be put in that situation. but I would have shot the 2nd dude, I don't care if he was 150 yds running away...

The criminal was a threat before he even kidnapped the guy - its obvious he was TARGETED - the criminals already knew where he lived, that he had a lot of money, and merchandise, and a big house - I mean there aren't any cheap houses on East over drive.

Since he was already targeted for being a successful person who live in a nice house - don't you think the other (still alive) gangster could possibly come back for revenge for you shooting his buddy "Gutta Life Dee"??



I don't know about yall, But I am not looking over my shoulder the rest of my days,

I couldn't sleep at night know the same people that stuck a gun to my head and robbed me blind was out there potentially targeting the house where my family sleeps......AGAIN The thugs already mentioned what they would do to his wife..... and they obviously aren't scared to follow though with there intentions - I mean the robbed a competition pistol shooter who was armed on his way to the gun range..........

Two issues here to deal with

First, yes there may be some legal issues if you shoot a fleeing felon in the back (see the police officer case in SC). In a case like this.. if you did kill the 2nd suspect you would most likely face legal challenges. Even if you were not sent to jail, the cost of the legal fees would most likely be more than the criminals would have ever gotten in the robbery.. So shooting the second suspect may have been a bigger financial blow to you than the robbery..

Second, shooting a moving target with a short barreled pistol under extreme duress is not easy to do (even if you are a competition shooter). Most people (even experienced hunters) can not hit center mass on a stationary pistol target at 15 yards. Hit percentages on defensive shooting are in 20% range even a to close distances.. Most people never see their sights because they are so focused on the threat.. If you shoot 10 times and only hit 20% of the time that means that 8 bullets are whizzing past your threat and landing somewhere else.. If one of those bullets hits another innocent bystander while you are shooting at a fleeing suspect you can bet you will likely be behind bars..

The purpose of any defensive shooting is to first protect life, 2nd protect property, and third don't do anything stupid to get yourself in further legal or financial trouble..

I think this Dr. did all of that...

[gps4]

It has its place, but it can go too far.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/controversial- ... d=24710849

i don't see how this case goes too far. the law treats burglary (breaking into a dwelling with intent to commit a crime) as an inherently dangerous crime and presumes the public expect there to be occupants in a dwelling, no matter when it is. they planned to burglarize a house. it doesn't matter if they thought no one was in it or not. i doesn't matter if none of them had a gun. had any of the boys tried to dive through a pane glass window and instead cut himself on the broken glass and died, they's still be guilty of capital murder.

it is mama and daddy's job to inform their kids that if you break the law, there are harsh consequences.

[cwink]

I couldn't sleep at night know the same people that stuck a gun to my head and robbed me blind was out there potentially targeting the house where my family sleeps......AGAIN The thugs already mentioned what they would do to his wife..... and they obviously aren't scared to follow though with there intentions - I mean the robbed a competition pistol shooter who was armed on his way to the gun range..........

I had this exact same discussion with a guy in my class a few years ago.. We were talking about if it was legal to shoot someone that was running out of your house after a home invasion.. Most self defense experts will tell you to let them go.. He didn't like this theory.. He was a big muscle bound MMA gun guy and his thought process was just like yours..

Here was our conversation
Me - If someone breaks into my home and I catch them running out do you want me to shoot them?
Him - "Yes".
Me - If I see someone breaking into my truck, should I shoot them?
Him - "Yes".
Me - What if I miss???
Him - " Uhh, you will hit my house"
Me - How many kids do you have?
Him - "4"
Me - Do you still want me to shoot a guy that is breaking into my truck?
Him - "Uhh, no I prefer you don't"

You see this was my next door neighbor.. And the spot where my truck sits is directly in front of his house.. Any misses would send bullets into his home...

Regardless of the situation, we as civilians are responsible for every shot we make and MISS... I used to have the same mindset as many gun owners, shoot till the gun goes click, if they run out of your house shoot them and drag them back in, ect....

I have seen enough "experienced" shooters on the pistol range to know that if they get into a defensive shooting in a crowded place there is going to be innocent people shot and killed.. I just don't want that on my conscious.

Stop the threat
Protect people over property
Don't do anything stupid to get yourself in legal trouble..

[gps4]

word on the street is that the guy who got away is a jailer....

http://kingfish1935.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... ailer.html

[cwink]

word on the street is that the guy who got away is a jailer....

http://kingfish1935.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... ailer.html

Yep - Worked for MDOC in Rankin County..
http://www.msnewsnow.com/story/29115226 ... pe=generic

[lilwhitelie]

I think it will be interesting in the long run to hear what he thought he did wrong and what he thought he did right in this situation from a self defense perspective.

I work from home and I always carry whenever I leave the house, but over the last few months I have started home carrying too.. Now I keep it on from Dawn till I get in bed for the night..[/quote]

lets say he did shoot the other one but he survived but is paralyzed. It is proven he was running away and was shot in the back and was no longer a threat and possibly he wasn't armed but the one that is dead was armed. How does this play out in the courtroom?? Remember this is Hinds county. The shooter ends up no longer being a victim especially when Al gets hold of it. Just wouldn't like my chances on that jury with all that's happening today. Someone has to be the sacrifice. Baltimore is a prime example. Just seems the criminals have more rights than honest folks these days.[/quote]



I do care what the law says, I hope I never have to be put in that situation. but I would have shot the 2nd dude, I don't care if he was 150 yds running away...

The criminal was a threat before he even kidnapped the guy - its obvious he was TARGETED - the criminals already knew where he lived, that he had a lot of money, and merchandise, and a big house - I mean there aren't any cheap houses on East over drive.

Since he was already targeted for being a successful person who live in a nice house - don't you think the other (still alive) gangster could possibly come back for revenge for you shooting his buddy "Gutta Life Dee"??



I don't know about yall, But I am not looking over my shoulder the rest of my days,

I couldn't sleep at night know the same people that stuck a gun to my head and robbed me blind was out there potentially targeting the house where my family sleeps......AGAIN The thugs already mentioned what they would do to his wife..... and they obviously aren't scared to follow though with there intentions - I mean the robbed a competition pistol shooter who was armed on his way to the gun range..........[/quote]


Two issues here to deal with

First, yes there may be some legal issues if you shoot a fleeing felon in the back (see the police officer case in SC). In a case like this.. if you did kill the 2nd suspect you would most likely face legal challenges. Even if you were not sent to jail, the cost of the legal fees would most likely be more than the criminals would have ever gotten in the robbery.. So shooting the second suspect may have been a bigger financial blow to you than the robbery..

Second, shooting a moving target with a short barreled pistol under extreme duress is not easy to do (even if you are a competition shooter). Most people (even experienced hunters) can not hit center mass on a stationary pistol target at 15 yards. Hit percentages on defensive shooting are in 20% range even a to close distances.. Most people never see their sights because they are so focused on the threat.. If you shoot 10 times and only hit 20% of the time that means that 8 bullets are whizzing past your threat and landing somewhere else.. If one of those bullets hits another innocent bystander while you are shooting at a fleeing suspect you can bet you will likely be behind bars..

The purpose of any defensive shooting is to first protect life, 2nd protect property, and third don't do anything stupid to get yourself in further legal or financial trouble..

I think this Dr. did all of that...[/quote]

That was my point to a tee. The guy running away was no longer a "threat" in a hinds county court. In rankin county I wouldn't hesitate. I know in the hear of the moment and after what that guy went through you would wanna empty every bullet you had in them but after all that has happened lately in other places and seeing how the system works it's easy to see how shooting a fleeing person that has committed a crime can turn out. In just about all the cases this year the criminals have had a long wrap sheet but after the left media gets it they turn the tables on the ones that common sense people think acted correctly. The cops in Baltimore are basically the sacrificial lambs for stuff that's happened lately and that is sad because there is no way they would get a fair trial in Baltimore.

My point is the system in hinds county would greatly be against you from the start. Time and time again you see criminals families on the news complaining how rough the cops were to them etc etc just after they robbed someone. Add the tension now with all that's going on in the world and you could see how you could be in the same spot as the cops in Baltimore. Your are now quilty until you pay enough to try and convince a jury of your peers.....and by peers don't bet on many east over residents being on that jury, that you are innocent. This world is getting more screwed up every day and I am scared what my child will face in 20 years.

[1010]

I don't know about yall, But I am not looking over my shoulder the rest of my days,

I get your meaning here, but whites have targets on their backs, keep your head on a swivel from here on out. just saying.

[Smoke68]

I'll post one more time on felony murder, being that if you're involved in committing a felony and your partner in crime dies, then you will be responsible for his death even if you didn't kill him.

The reason for this rule is to deter people from committing felonies. The problem I have with it, is that it doesn't deter people from committing felonies because the average person DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT IT. Shoot, a lot of people are learning about it for the first time from reading this thread. When a lot of people find out about it, it's because something happened and they just got 25 years to life added to their already long sentence. That's not a deterrent, that's just a longer sentence tacked on to someone who already committed a crime.

Second, it removes personal responsibility from the equation, and I think most everyone here is a proponent of a man being responsible for his own actions. If thug #1 gets killed in the act of a felony, it's not thug #2's fault. It's thug #1's fault. Gutta got what he had coming because he made a bad decision (several actually) not because his buddy made a bad decision.

You know what is a deterrent to committing a felony? Kidnapping a guy and possibly getting killed for it.

[Rfjeff9]

I know details on this. He was justified, I am just amazed he didn't kill both from what I have heard.

[gps4]

I'll post one more time on felony murder, being that if you're involved in committing a felony and your partner in crime dies, then you will be responsible for his death even if you didn't kill him.

The reason for this rule is to deter people from committing felonies. The problem I have with it, is that it doesn't deter people from committing felonies because the average person DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT IT. Shoot, a lot of people are learning about it for the first time from reading this thread. When a lot of people find out about it, it's because something happened and they just got 25 years to life added to their already long sentence. That's not a deterrent, that's just a longer sentence tacked on to someone who already committed a crime.

Second, it removes personal responsibility from the equation, and I think most everyone here is a proponent of a man being responsible for his own actions. If thug #1 gets killed in the act of a felony, it's not thug #2's fault. It's thug #1's fault. Gutta got what he had coming because he made a bad decision (several actually) not because his buddy made a bad decision.

You know what is a deterrent to committing a felony? Kidnapping a guy and possibly getting killed for it.

It doesn't matter who gets killed during the commission of a felony or how the person is killed. The victim could have had a dang heart attack or jumped out the truck and got run over by the vehicle behind them, and thug no. 1 and thug no. 2 would both still be guilty of felony murder. The point is, they were both involved in committing an inherently dangerous crime that any reasonable person would believe created a risk of serious bodily injury or death. Both thugs made a bad decision when they decided to kidnap and rob him. In my humble opinion, they both should be equally responsible for the consequences.

I distinctly remember my mama telling me when I was a kid that if I'm with someone who shoots somebody, I'm just as guilty as the person who pulls the trigger. If I'm with someone who robs a store, I'm just as guilty as they are. In addition, ignorance is not a valid defense.

[cwink]

I know details on this. He was justified, I am just amazed he didn't kill both from what I have heard.

I would be curious to see why he waited so long to defend himself, no access to his gun? no opportunity? Not sure I would have wanted to get into the car with them if I didn't have too... Again, I still think he did the right thing. If he would have killed the 2nd suspect while he was running away I can see the headlines now.

"Competition shooter takes aim, kills fleeing suspect!"

Even if shooting the 2nd suspect was justified the media would still spin it and make it out to be a negative on gun owners.....

There was an incident a few years ago at the gas station by my house.. When I first drove by there were cop cars and ambulances and fire trucks all over the place. I avoided it and went home, came back a few hours later to get gas.. The clerk was talking to the customer in front of me. She said there were 3 girls filling up a truck with gas and a guy pulled up behind them and rammed their truck and he jumped out and started beating them, pretty badly.. With out missing a beat the customer in front of me, said.. "Man, I wish I was here, I would have pulled out my gun and shot him!!"

Really? Do you really want to sent bullets into the cab of a truck with four people fighting? Do you really think you would be able to be 100% sure you only hit the bad guy?? Not to mention the gas pump nozzle that is pumping high explosive liquids into the truck?