The "RUINING" of duck hunting???

[UndercoverBrother]

I think that DU article is a bunch of rubbish.

I can make an argument against everything in there.

Today - They claim we have more ducks......

we got 4+ times the number of hunters,

4 times the amount of available water and food.

do the math.

We need 4 times the number of ducks or more..........

It isn't gonna happen, and we'll never hunt after the end of January, so the best we can hope for is reduced season, which get's rid of some of the leases, keeps the yankees from killing so many cause the weather is favorable, reduces the weekend warriors, reduces the number of killed birds, and forces us to put some splits in the season.

I'm not saying it's the weather cause it's been plenty cold this year. Weather we can't controll. Everything else we can.

[Double R 2]

Why reduce the season in an effort to increase duck production? It'd be futile; like fertilizing a fish pond or garden before gettin rid of all the weeds. Assuming that the duck numbers are real, that the flyway counts are real, the upper flyway are killing the ducks that we used to. Evidence: Longer season, later season, warmer weather, no-till farm practices and ROBO have contributed to the demise of southern duck hunting - duck harvest has increased 10 fold from North Dakota to Ohio AND harvest of juvenile mallards by southern hunters is about 1/4th the historic average (this information has been offically documented here and elswhere). Example: there's an elite club on the outskirts of Chicago that's gone from killing about 300 ducks annually to killing several thousand. Example: North Dakota has gone from killing and average of 60-70,000 to killing 700,000!

IF the fall flight numbers are correct - and I'm not yet convinced that they are - how much does production need be increased before southern waterfowl harvest increases to historic levels? Or will the "yankees" kill just that many more?

Wingman was dead on: a million ducks spread over today's landformed delta appears fewer than the same million spread over yesteryear's landscape when field water was primarily isolated to out of bank ditches and flooded swags. But think about it...shouldn't waterfowl density increase proportional to increased water at the landscape level? If 1000 ares of water provides sufficient habitat for x ducks then 10,000 acres should equate to 10x!

BUT what about the 250,000++ acres of ag land that has been converted to weed patches and hardwood seedlings??? What is the probability that anyone will EVER again count 350,000 mallards while flying from Vicksburg to Delta National Forest as the late Howard Miller purportedly did back in the "good old days"???? Much of the flooded agricultural land is GONE! Land owners have been seduced by $$$ to convert flooded ag habitat into UNMANAGED wetland wastlends because they either can not or will not manage for waterfowl! How many acres of prime waterfowl habitat have been converted to waterfowl roosts for the bargain rate of 75% appraised land value!!

Blame DU? That's simply pointing fingers, laying blame, to make ourselves feel better!

It has been reported that - in today's dollars - the cost or restoring/establishing sufficient habitat to produce duck goals is $1.4 BILLION!!! At todays current funding levels - which is primarily governmental - and assuming that all factors remain constant, it will take 155 YEARS to accomplish!!!!

How can reducing the limits/days possibly reverse the decline of southern duck hunting?

It's like I tell young sons all the time: there are only winners and whiners; whiners make noise while winners do something about it!

[Money]

By God !

[MsBowMan]

What the hell is wrong with weekend duck hunters? Many have phrased this term, and I am one. Do I not have a right or voice in the matter because I'm not a hardcore duck hunter? I left another "big" board because of the elitist attitudes, am suprised at this board. Deer hunters welcome new hunters, what's this snobby attitude with the duck hunters?

[sportsman450]

Wingman was dead on: a million ducks spread over today's landformed delta appears fewer than the same million spread over yesteryear's landscape when field water was primarily isolated to out of bank ditches and flooded swags. But think about it...shouldn't waterfowl density increase proportional to increased water at the landscape level? If 1000 ares of water provides sufficient habitat for x ducks then 10,000 acres should equate to 10x!

BUT what about the 250,000++ acres of ag land that has been converted to weed patches and hardwood seedlings??? What is the probability that anyone will EVER again count 350,000 mallards while flying from Vicksburg to Delta National Forest as the late Howard Miller purportedly did back in the "good old days"???? Much of the flooded agricultural land is GONE! Land owners have been seduced by $$$ to convert flooded ag habitat into UNMANAGED wetland wastlends because they either can not or will not manage for waterfowl! How many acres of prime waterfowl habitat have been converted to waterfowl roosts for the bargain rate of 75% appraised land value!!

Very good points there Double R. A good case in point would be what we used ta call the Delhi Plantation, and is now the Lake George WMA. When that basin was in beans and rice, it held thousands and thousands of ducks from the beginning of the season until the end - regardless of the weather. Now that it is weeds and seedlings, it holds virtually nothing. Duck hunting in that area has not been the same since. The ducks that used ta hold there supplied most of the flooded woods and potholes in that area.

How can reducing the limits/days possibly reverse the decline of southern duck hunting?

I do think that reducing the season and limits on a national scale would benefit southern hunters by reducing the pressure regardless of wheather it helped flight numbers or not, and if the limits and days were reduced, a lot of those 700,000 N. Dakota ducks would make it a little further south.

[Wingman]

So you're saying mallards don't eat greenbriar and broom sedge?

[mallardchaser]

Posted: 24 Jan 2005 08:40 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So you're saying mallards don't eat greenbriar and broom sedge?

I think he is saying he feels WRP has hurt the Southern Delta...Yeah, ducks eat natural foods but not when they're dry with a rye grass patch planted on them..

[Wingman]

I was being sarcastic

[mallardchaser]

I was just clarifying his post Wingman, no ill will toward you.

[tunica]

What the hell is wrong with weekend duck hunters? Many have phrased this term, and I am one. Do I not have a right or voice in the matter because I'm not a hardcore duck hunter? I left another "big" board because of the elitist attitudes, am suprised at this board. Deer hunters welcome new hunters, what's this snobby attitude with the duck hunters?

Aint nothing wrong with only able to hunt on the weekends even Duckhunters have to work. The term is reffering to those idiots that think they are duck hunters because they have a gun,blind,boat, decoys, and a couple days to learn the simple art of duck hunting. Those types are the ones that skyblast, setup within 100 yards of the next guy, call to everyduck they see and dont care one bit about the hunt but only care about KILLING. So if your not one of those dont take the comment personal if your one of those types then learn something while your on this Board...AND if you can't or wont listen and learn from others THEN go back to where your from and give up duck hunting.....

We protect our sport like good shepards guard thier flock again it aint personal its just what we do.

[Wildfowler]

what's this snobby attitude with the duck hunters?

Aw shucks man, don't feel bad. A lot of folks around here have been complaining about not killing any ducks for the past 4 or 5 years now. They just think you're just one more skyblaster waiting to set up 50 yards away from them at Mahannah this last weekend.

Don't take it personally.

[Wildfowler]

I do think that reducing the season and limits on a national scale would benefit southern hunters by reducing the pressure regardless of wheather it helped flight numbers or not, and if the limits and days were reduced, a lot of those 700,000 N. Dakota ducks would make it a little further south.

I don't agree with you. It probably won't reduce any pressure. It will probably cause more southern hunters to travel North before MS duck season opens.

I personally like to know that I can hunt LA/AR a week or more before our season opens depending on the framework. If we get any 30 day seasons anytime soon, I'm sure I'm not the only one who will be traveling into the northern states to get my fix in Oct/Nov. I'm sure there are plenty of guys from this board alone who are doing it already?

I would only expect the pressure to increase in the Northern states, further increasing the pressure on the ducks by the time they get here. COmbined that with the other factors pressuring the ducks by the time they get here, would spell disaster for us in MS.

[MsBowMan]

Wow........duck hunters who protect their own. Noble thought and idea, only it comes across as "Stay away from my duck hole so I'll have more ducks to shoot". Most deer hunters welcome new hunters and introduce them to the sport and share in clubs, work, and learning. My feelings are duck hunters want less hunters, more ducks, and a buddy buddy hunting system that most won't participate in.

I'm new to duck hunting, and don't like what I'm hearing. Before you get off on me, I hunt private lands only, I have purchased my federal and state duck stamps which help pay for the public lands you hunt, and I am most definetely a weekend, 3 or 4 times a year duck hunter. Now how is that hurting you hardcore hunters? When duck hunters give up this "snob" attitude", many changes will and would happen for the better. Would you rather have 100,000 duck hunters working towards the same wants and desires, or 25,000 hardcore hunters fighting the daily fight only to continue to be kicked around by our Northern brothers?

Harcore duck hunters need to open their eyes, educate and help new hunters, and quit being so damn protective of your little "public" honey holes which alot of private land hunters as myself contribute too. I was welcomed into the deer hunting community with open arms, and feel as though the duck hunters are protective, elitist, and down right rude.

Open your arms and welcome new hunters, teach them, educate them, and help them to be better hunters. Don't run them off!! I'm stepping off my soap box now, and hoping this make sense to someone. Bash on.....................

[h2o_dog]

Wingman,
I'm not sure I agree with the premise that ducks are spread out more now. Yeah, maybe they're spread out more now than 20 years ago, but go back 50 years ago there was a lot more standing timber in the delta and not much other than high ground cotten was planted. Ducks thrived in the natural habitat. People forget that (unlike pheasants) mallards were not introduced by man to North America. They've been here longer than we have, and they survived just fine before we started monkeying with their habitat.

You do make a good point - I'm just not totally convinced.

[GREENHEAD]

Bowman

I am not bashing.... but.....and before i start (i only hunt private lands as well).....i have heard you make the same comment over and over about how deer hunters do this and that.....well i found out a long time ago the duck hunting and deer hunting are as different as hockey and basketball...no deer hunter has ever tried to steal my lease.......no deer hunter has ever....well hell it aint worth it

if the attitude you have received upsets you ......and i dont mean to sound rude but.....stick with the deer cause i do not forsee the duckhunter attitude changing anytime soon

food for thought

gh