02 SEASON WORST CASE 30 DAYS & 3 DUCKS

[tupe]

While I will agree thathaving less hunters on teh public areas would be nice, and it might bring lease prices down, there would be a price to pay. That being that orgonizations like Delta Waterfowl and DU would loose a lot of money, duck stamp sales would fall, Pitman Robertson revenue would decrease, etc.
As far as any hopes of seeing the season long and the bag limit low, that is just not possible under AHM. And barring a radical change in that program could not happen for at least three years. If any of yo are interested in understanding how and why the possible framework is set go to the office of migratory gamebird home page and look it up, it is worth the read.
I learned the ropes of waterfowling in the last spate of low bag/ short seasons and yes it was painful to have so short a season, but I did have a lot of great hunts, and I learned alot about ducks in those years because I spent a ton of time just out in the wilds with them, scouting, learning new places etc.
We can all hope that longer seasons will happen, but with populations falling for three years and harvest rates increasing, combined with a drought on the prarie you can bet this year we will see a reduction.

M.B.

[webfoot]

In the Adaptive Harvest Management, 2001 Duck Hunting Season from the USFWS **(Link to File)** in Appendix F:the second to the last page covers past regulations and harvest strategies. Three areas are covered in reference to season length they are Restrictive, Moderate, Liberal. Likewise for the Bag limits.

The debate is on. Remember that economics is not written into the plan, but somehow will play a roll in dates/harvest.

[tupe]

Here is the link to the new version of AHM. http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/fedreg/mgbhr.html
It has the new frameworks and other information. It is alomost the same as the above link, just a bit more brief, and includes the allowance of a closure on the last Sunday in Jan.

Click on the proposed 2002-2003 framework at the top os the list.
M.B.

[ April 10, 2002: Message edited by: M.B.Waters ]

[ April 10, 2002: Message edited by: M.B.Waters ]

[webfoot]

Thanks M.B. for the updated link.

[Po Monkey Lounger]

A few observations and suggestions: ban the robo; adopt the moderate format of 45 days and 4 ducks; reduce number of hen mallards in bag limit to one (or possibly none); create separate bag limit for spoonies(eg coots, mergansers, etc) to encourage their harvest to keep them from taking over the duck world.

Question: Does the extended season framework, allowing us to hunt until the end of Jan., apply to any framework other than the liberal one? I think it is tied to the liberal framework and we will most likely not get the extended dates if the moderate or restricted formats are chosen.

If the 30/3 framework is designated, it might not be such a bad thing for the reasons mentioned above. I will still be out there having fun. But, due to politics and economics, I think we will see the moderate framework chosen if the situation in the breeding grounds does not improve. I just hope whatever is decided is done sooner than later, so plans can be made to take off work and hunt as much as possible during the time we get. I agree with one of the posts above that it will take more than one moderate or restricted framework season to bring down the prices for leases --not really sure I want this result that bad. What the reduced days and bag will do is pretty much take the occasional undesirable kneebooter out of the equation. However, one possible negative side effect is that it might actually increase the number of out of state hunters from states with earlier seasons who might want to extend their season into ours. I know that I will be going to their states to hunt before our season starts, especially if we only get 30 days. Something to think about before we all get too carried away with the less is better theory (for reasons other than conservation).

[TMoore]

Ole Bufflehead hit the nail on the head. If we don't get the liberal framework (I don't think we will), I believe the season will have to end no later than the Sunday closest to January 20. I brought this up to John Devney with Delta when he came and spoke in Oxford a few weeks ago. He said then that he thought our season would only be 30 to 45 days. He also said that Delta Waterfowl was definately against MS having an extended season to January 31st. We are just going to have to realize that we are entering another part of the "duck cycle" where bag limits are lowered and seasons are shortened. It may last 1 to 3 years, or could last 10 years. Who knows ? Unless our good ole buddy TRENT LOTT can pull something out of his ass, which is possible, everyone just better hang on and get ready.


Damn water of course !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ringbill]

I hate to bring this up, but speculate all you want. There is NO WAY at this point we can know what our seasons will be. A great shot of rain to Alberta and Saskatchewan and it might be liberal again. Wait for the May pond counts before speculating too far amigos.

Ringbill

[Lacuna]

ban the robo; adopt the moderate format of 45 days and 4 ducks; reduce number of hen mallards in bag limit to one (or possibly none)

By gosh-a-mighty there is a genius in the group! Let's let HIM make the rules he knows what he's talking about!

This first year I really wish they would tear us a new air hole with a 30/3 and get rid of some of the problems in the process.

Three ducks is enough to pluck.

If you want to shoot any longer, then start earlier up the flyway.

Dec 16th To Jan 15th no breaks 3/day

[mallardchaser]

I called the head MS "duck dude" the other day after feed call called me and told me he heard 30/3. He said it's WAY to early for anyone to know what the season will be. He said at the earliest they will decide in July. His feeling is it will surely be less than 60/6, but know one knows for sure what it will be at this point.
I agree with wingman "30/3 would get rid of some of these ridiculous lease prices and thin out some of the goofballs"

[Lacuna]

It feels kind of strange looking at 60/6 and knowing that it's history. To be honest that looks more strange than 30/3 to me.

Give us 30/4 anyway wont you?

The real precip line has been cycling just at the south Mo. line and is slowly moving up the face of the continent as it warms.

The next few should move across MO and further north and then finally wet the prairie and Canada regions if they are going to get wet.

There is no snow to melt to fill the pools, spring rain will determine nesting water and that really is never enough to do the job by itself.

It's going to fall, it's been up high for a long time, but we all knew it was coming and here it is.

I just hope it doesnt last a decade this time.

I wish the USWFS would pin 30/3 on it just to be "safe" for a few years and then outlaw robo since nobody who will be hunting then will be using one and then give us 45/4 if the ducks look a little better.

This should definetly rattle the guide and lease businesses. It would not surprise me one little bit to see the guides start the same thing that the SCWA does and raise birds for canned hunts. All this money in duck hunting will create some new approaches to 30/3 that bend it as far as they can bend it and make money with it.

[tupe]

Just looked at my AHM copy, it is last Sun. in JAN for liberal and moderate.
As far a a good shot of rain goes I am afriad that won't do it. The area we are talking about is most dependent on snowfall for its real water. While rain may help ease teh drought it will not prevent the breeding ground from being in bad shape this year. And as far as May pond counts go they have been a very unreliable baromoeter of late. Last years pond cont was way up but we still lost ground on the breeding population.
True it is early to know if we will see 30 or 45 but if I was a betting man I darn sure wouldn't have my money on 60.
If we see a 60 day season this year it would be a crime, having had a 30% decrees in mallards over the last two to three years there is no reason we should have had asa high a limit as we did last year, I know we are still slightly above the long term average but I would say that any time you see a greater than 25% decline in any species in a short period of timem that measures should be taken to do what little we have control over, and that is to cut the bag limit/ days afield. No it is not popular but I am up for what ever is best to preserve quality hunting and stable waterfowl populations.

M.B.

[Lacuna]

No it is not popular but I am up for what ever is best to preserve quality hunting and stable waterfowl populations.

Amen to that just take the ones that it isnt popular with out of the sport and we could have our limits back again !!! [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Did anybody do a difinitive study on robo mortality or is that going to be muddeled for commerce sake until I am dead?

It only makes sense that when the ducks dont come down in winter because there is no snow on the ground to push them, then there wont be much water in the spring from a melt off.

I don't really like a lot of what I have seen happen in duck hunting in the last 10 years and I think some quality time reduction is just what the doctor ordered.

I read that there is a new el nino and that could drag this decline out considerably couldnt it?

Looks like it is time to bang on the snow geese for awhile! I've been putting it off to a better time and it looks like it's a better time now.

[Model12]

I agree, I don't hope for 30, but I would like to see 45. Some of the stupid stuff we've had to deal with in the last few years might ease up a bit. Just remember...what comes around....

[Delta Duck]

60 and 2 would not be bad!!!!
Rather have 60 and 4.

[MSDuckmen]

Please Lord give us 30 and 3.

It is all about quality not quantity for this duck hunter