SUnflower field prep/planting

[Wildfowler]

Does anyone know if there an online resource available that I could refer to in order to get an idea of what steps are involved from start to finish planting Sunflowers for dove?

If not, could someone here outline the whole process for me? Specifically, I'm trying to find out how much herbicide/insecticide is needed from start to finish in order to have a nice stand of "clean" sunflowers.

Let's say that I've got a 10 acre field that I want to plant in sunflowers next Spring. The field currently has cotton planted in it. The cotton has been picked and bushhogged. Is there anything that needs to be done to the field right now? Is there anything that can be done, or needs to be done within some significant amount of time prior to planting the sunflowers?

Is there a preferred variety of sunflower? Could this vary with different soil types/locations (fields are in Madison county within a few miles of the Big Black)?

Is there a specific fertilizer requirement for sunflowers? Does this vary with soil types/locations.

How many applications of herbicide is typically needed from start to finish? How many gallons per acre? How much does this stuff cost per gallon?

I appreciate any help I can get with this. I'm hoping to become a new sunflower "farmer" next year. Thank you very much.

[SWAG]

All great questions. A study is under way now at the Jamie L. Whitten Plant Materials Center that will help you with some of the answers you are looking for. We are testing several hybrids for seed yield as well as chemical treatments that will insure good yields + bare ground that we all know doves like when feeding. The study is being done at three locations (hills, south Delta on clay soils, and north Delta on sandy land). 2007 will be the final year of the study. We have alot of results and have found out much info already. Hopefully we will get this information into a technical guide and maybe through extension services to spread it quickly. PM me and I can give you some "general" things to do as far as fertilizer rates and what you may want to do following cotton on that 10 acres. Thanks!

[Double R 2]

Shoot wingman and email - he's a bonafide professional and grew teh state's largest sunflower this past year.

[Wildfowler]

Shoot wingman and email - he's a bonafide professional and grew teh state's largest sunflower this past year.

I was hoping that he might just come on here and make some suggestions for all to see.

[SB]

You mentioned planting the sunflowers in close proximity to the Big Black River. Just a word of caution, deer love sunflowers, especially right after they have been fertilized. Keep the landscape (habitat) and deer population in mind when planning a sunflower field. I've seen fields on several occasions browsed down to nothing by deer.

Wingman has forgotten more about farming/managing sunflowers than most people will ever know about growing'em.

What do most people budget for planting costs? I use the figure of at least $100/acre. It is closer to $120/acre some of the fields I've been involved with in the last 2 years.

[Wildfowler]

You mentioned planting the sunflowers in close proximity to the Big Black River. Just a word of caution, deer love sunflowers, especially right after they have been fertilized. Keep the landscape (habitat) and deer population in mind when planning a sunflower field. I've seen fields on several occasions browsed down to nothing by deer.

Not that I'd be interested in killing deer, but don't they offer a permit to kill wayward deer that are causing crop damamge? Might make for some fun offseason shooting.

Probably have to get my rifle "proof tested" to make sure it's still safe to shoot. It's been so long.

[Wildfowler]

I am going to attempt to offer an account of a discussion that I had today with a chemical and seed salesman. Please understand that I am not a farmer some of my terminology could be lacking. I'm going to do my best to present my information that I received today for anyone what they are doing and it willing to look at and critique. The costs below are what the salesman considered a "worst case" market price/demand situation. Actual cost should be lower.

It was explained to me that there are three growth periods of time when chemicals are sprayed on the planted sunflowers.

1. Pre-emergence period. Defined as the time period when the seed has been planted, but prior to the plant reaching a certain height.

2. Lay-By period. Defined as the maximum plant height that will still afford the passage of tractor with spray boom through planted rows without knocking down sunflower plants.

3. Dry-Down period. Defined as the last stage of the life cycle of the sunflower, where the intent is to "dry down" the plant so that it will wilt over and begin dropping it's seed. At this point, some rows of sunflowers will be lost due to passage of tractor with spray boom.



Having identified the terms. Here's the outline.

i. Seed type: Hybrid (Calvary) 50# bag = $150. 50# of seed needed to plant 8 - 10 acres. Cost = $15 per acre.

ii. Fertilizer:

Nit - 70-90 units per acre = $35 per acre
Ph - 46 units = $25 per acre
P. Ash - 80 units = $25 per acre

iii. Chemical weed control:

(Pre-emergence growth period)

1 quart of Prowl and 4 ounces of Spartan mixed together with 10 gallons of water per acre. Cost = $25 per acre.

("Lay-By" growth period)

1 quart of MSMA and 1 quart of Direx mixed together with 10 - 15 gallons of water per acre. Cost = $8 per acre.

("Dry-Down" growth period)

2 ounces of Aim OR 16 ounces of Gramoxone mixed with 10 gallons of water per acre. Cost = either $10 or $6 per acre.

Adding up these costs, worst case scenario, it should cost up to $143 per acre to correctly plant sunflowers. If chemicals are bought by the farmer in large quantities for his whole farming operation, the cost of chemicals should be cheaper than what is listed here.

If anyone who has read down this far and is willing to look past my possible incorrect use and understanding of terminology and would like to offer their opinions on this plan, suggestions they have seen work well, etc. I would really appreciate any discussion. I know it's about to be duck season, and the last thing on a lot of people's minds right now is how to plant a sunflower field. I have an opportunity next year, and don't want to wait around trying to gather information and possibly miss out.

Thank you very much.

[Wildfowler]

Another question:

What if the sunflower field is ideally located directly across a turn row from a cotton or corn field. If they're spraying roundup on the cotton or corn, wouldn't there be a high likelihood that doing so would kill my sunflowers?

Is it possible to have a sunflower field located right beside a "round-up" row crop field?

Thanks.

[SB]

Wildfowler:

You did not mention costs on land prep, planting, or cultivation costs. You may have factored that in somewhere though? Either way, sunflowers aren't cheap, but there is no substitute for a good dove hunt.

I think the chemical rep pointed you in the right direction. His information is very similar to the recommendations I hear so often. You may or may not need that last spraying. It just depends on the stage of maturity and weed competition. Also, sodium chlorate can be used at the last spraying at a low cost.

Sunflowers are not tolerant of Round-Up. They can be ground beside a Round-Up Ready crop if the farmer is extracareful with his spraying.

Also, I would be hesitant of paying the costs for the hybrid sunflowers. I would stick to the plain on Peridovic sunflower($20.00/bag) for now. My mind will probably be changed when the Plant Material Center releases their findings.

[Wildfowler]

You may or may not need that last spraying. It just depends on the stage of maturity and weed competition.

I was thinking that it might be possible to delete that last spraying. Like you said, I guess it just depends on what the field looks like.


As far as the other costs go, I have factored that in elsewhere. As far as the materials we would have to buy, these were the highest figures the rep had ever seen.

SB, you previously suggested a price per acre of 100 - 120 dollars. Does this include the other land prep costs that you mentioned?

Also, I would be hesitant of paying the costs for the hybrid sunflowers. I would stick to the plain on Peridovic sunflower($20.00/bag) for now. My mind will probably be changed when the Plant Material Center releases their findings.

This year, I hunted in two different fields that were probably not the Peridovic sunflower. These fields looked awesome. Really large plants (4 to 5 feet tall), large beefy stalks, large leaves, and large seed heads. I will be in touch with the owner of these two different fields to find out for sure what they planted. I'm going to be inclined to not "skimp" on the seed if I find out they planted a more expensive hybrid seed.

Whereas, I hunted in another series of fields that looked good (clean and lots of dove) but the plants were not as big as what I saw in the two fields that I described above.

Scott, have you had the kind of success that I am describing above using Peridovic seed?

Thanks for your input.

[BR549]

No need to plant the hybrids. 15-18 lbs per acre is a plenty. We plant ours with a drill on 15" centers. 70-90 units of nitrogen is fine. Plant em by 20th of april and you won't need to make that last spray they will dry down in time on their own. Rest of the chemicals are about right. They will not tolerate roundup though!!!!! They are suppose to be coming out with a round-up ready sunflower but not out as of yet. They are expensive though but well worth it if you like to dove hunt. It's very imperitive to keep em as clean and free of weeds as possible though! Doves like clean ground plus all the noxious weeds compete with the sunflowers for the nitrogen. Your potash and lime will probably be ok if the ground has been in rowcrop the previous year. Still going to cost you about 120.00 pr acre though. Good Luck!

40.00 pr acre for 90 units of n @300. pr ton
8.00 for seed 9non hybrid0 at 18 lbs pr acre
35.00 for chemicals above
40.00 pr acre for equipment 5 trips @ 8.00 pr acre
_____

123.00 pr acre total

[SB]

The $100-$120/acre costs were for a turn key field. All you had to do was show up and hunt. Those were on fields where the farmer wanted to fix a dove field. If I had to hire it all out (custom farming) I would not be surprised if it did not cost more.

If I was preparing a budget for a dove field. I would go ahead and factor in the last spraying and one more spraying for some where in the last half of the growing period. Most fields have pressure from coffee weeds, morning glorys, tea weed, or pig weed at some time after the sunflowers have done all they are going to do, but these weeds will "dirty" up that clean ground doves like so well. Around the Big Black you might see sickle pod too.

The state largest sunflower Wingman produced was from a peridovic. Plants/ sq foot and location will have some bearing on plant size. Your right, don't skimp on seed. That is the cheapest but most crucial item.

The best fields I have seen were grown on sandy ground. I've just never experienced a great dove field on buck shot. I know they exist, but from my experience, doves and sunflowers like a little sand on their feet.

There is a Clearfield varity of sunflowers that is as good or better than Round-Up Ready. It only takes ounces of chemical for an entire field, so for it to only be "just" expensive, you'll need a chemical dealer that will be ready to split a jug for you. If you have to buy the whole jug, it will be "real" expensive, from what I'm told anyway. I've heard mix reviews on the Clearfield variety and the weed control.

[Wingman]

Seed type: Hybrid (Calvary) 50# bag = $150. 50# of seed needed to plant 8 - 10 acres. Cost = $15 per acre.

If you got the money do it.

Otherwise, plant regular old peredovik at 7-10# per acre on 36" rows. I've planted peredovic for the last 5 years on the same field and see no need to plant an expensive hybrid variety. Too many seed per foot of row means more competetion between sunflowers and smaller heads with smaller seeds. Hit 'em with 20-30 gallons of N-sol at or a few weeks after planting. A blend with P and K probably wouldn't hurt, either, but I've never done anything but N. Put out your pre-emerge herbicide the day you plant and spray some Select on grasses that come up after the sunflowers emerge.

Prowl sprayed on top of the ground loses about 50% of it's active ingredient to the sun if not incorporated within 10 days, I think. Rain is an excellent incorporater and activator of pre-emerge chemicals. If you spray them and don't get a rain, they won't do much good.

I don't have a layby rig to spray underneath the sunflowers, but it sure would help control morning glories and other stuff that comes up after the pre-emerge wears off.

Summer drought usually keeps my field pretty clean. Gramoxone and cholorate on vines and morning glories late in the season after the sunflowers die will make hunting easier.

I planted mine on May 9th this year. The seed were good and ready by August 20th, thanks to the drought. Make sure you have good field drainage; sunflowers can't stand wet feet.

[Wildfowler]

Hit 'em with 20-30 gallons of N-sol at or a few weeks after planting. A blend with P and K probably wouldn't hurt, either, but I've never done anything but N.

Are you telling me to put out liquid fertilizer instead of granular? What's the best way to put out liquid fertilizer if we might be limited on equipment. We were thinking about just renting a big hopper that we can pull behind the tractor, and do all the fields at once.

I don't have a layby rig to spray underneath the sunflowers, but it sure would help control morning glories and other stuff that comes up after the pre-emerge wears off.

Summer drought usually keeps my field pretty clean. Gramoxone and cholorate on vines and morning glories late in the season after the sunflowers die will make hunting easier.

How many times was your field sprayed this year? Do you not do any kind of lay-by spray application? What you're saying is that the number of spray applications will vary based on current field conditions? Right?

[Wildfowler]

They are suppose to be coming out with a round-up ready sunflower but not out as of yet.

I asked the salesman about this. He said that he spoke with Monsanto, who said they were not going to be developing this product due to the fact that the seeds, if harvested and planted next year, would germinate. Bypassing the need to buy more expensive, round-up ready seeds next year, if you took the time to collect your own seeds.

Is this true or false?