its been awhile.

[bubba]

sounds good jb. i like the something else thing better. but neways as far as the fingerprints go, it will be a complete waste of money, this has already been proven. i may be mistaken on the states but i think it is maryland and new york that have put this thing in force on handguns and you know how many cases involving handgun shootings were solved due to fingerprinting............you got it NONE. yea the NRA has probably made some mistakes in certain issues but one thing is for sure they will fight for my right to own guns and that is what it is all about. people say well why not do it to cut down on crime, im for cutting down on crime also but dont think that money would be better served for, more police officers, better crime labs, better resources, there are several things that the money can go for to help in this area but once again the government is trying to make the law abiding people suffer from it not the criminals. this is just another step to break away at the 2nd ammendment. the easy way out for the government. thats why i think we should look at who is running for these elections and see which one will help us out........the good ole boys who just like to own guns and go hunting, target pratice or whatever. just my 2cents worth.

[mallardhunter]

[quote="Wildfowler"]I'm not an NRA member so I am not "up" on this issue. Should I as a hunter and gun owner be opposed to buying a gun that has been fingerprinted?
Yes.

Unless this gun gets stolen from me, it's "gun fingerprint" will not show up in any crime scene will it? Nor will my fingerprints show up in any crime scene for that matter.
Maybe, maybe not. False positives are a real concern here, according to ballistic forensic experts. A bullet may be matched to your gun incorrectly. This is not a science like fingerprinting humans or DNA evidence.

Will "gun fingerprinting" impact law abiding citizens in any way? To someone who is uninformed, this sounds like a good thing.
It costs plenty, and who do you think will pay? It is a first step towards registration.

I wonder how much it would cost to "gun fingerprint" every gun owned by law abiding citizens in America today?

"Every gun" can't be fingerprinted. Only guns with rifled barrels can be, and the fingerprints will change over time, usage, cleaning habits, rust, etc. Plus, one can intentionally change those fingerprints. If our recent snipers had chosen to, they could have had the authorities believe a different gun was used in every crime by changing the ballistic evidence collected from the bullets.

Is this really something I should be worried about? I don't have an anti-gun hidden agenda, I just want to know what the real issue is. I currently own 2 semi-auto pistols. So I am not just a "sporting gun owner" oblivious to the issues.
Actually, it is. It is useless, feel-good legislation that will accomplish next to nothing, cost plenty (to gun owners) and may well cause you (or some other innocent) to be a suspect in a crime when you were completely innocent.

There are a couple of Northeastern states that already require new guns to be "fingerprinted". So far, 19,000 guns have been processed. No crime has been solved yet.

[Wildfowler]

Interesting Mallardhunter...

I think I probably agree with you about there being flaws. Here's what I think could possibly happen. I don't claim to be any kind of authority on this subject, this is the first time that I have ever heard of "National gun fingerprinting process"

Due to the gun manufacturing process. I believe there would be many occasions where batches of guns get produced and have nearly identical fingerprints. This could be as a result of atmospheric conditions on a particular manufacturing day. There could have been an equipment alignment problem that produced a batch of guns with an identically scored barrel, I don't know. But I would believe that there are a myriad of possible scenarios that occur in the manufacturing process that would result in very similar grouping of gun fingerprints.

I would have a hard time believing the idea that if all 200M guns get fingerprinted, that there would be exactly 200M uniquely identifiable fingerprints out there. Rather I think that there would be large categories of gun fingerprints broken down in the following possible groups:

Caliber
Gun manufacturer
individual model
individual model manufacturing lot # (a manufacturing run)

From here, there would probably even be smaller sub-groups within the individual lots that are produced under isolated equipment flaws, or weather anomalies, or whatever.


Yes, I concede that there are flaws and false positives. But I don't think that innocent people are going to go to jail because of it. My opinions listed here, are just that, opinions. I really don't have any specific data to back this up. I think what I would wind up with is that my gun fingerprint matches up closely with other fingerprints within my "group" that are too close to let some computer match up as identical. And because of this, I am not fearful that I would go to jail for something that I didn't do.

I am not supporting this in any way, particularly if I have to pay or forfeit my firearm.

Does this sound too farfetched to even be possible?

Thanks.

[bubba]

i think what MH is trying to say is..........just suppose you have a gun that you let or the gov. has fingerprinted everything is just fine until that one day when your gun is stolen out of your truck, u start ranting and raving about some low life who had nothing better to do. well you get home cuss some more to the wife and get on the phone and report it stolen, police come out and take the report. well you see on the news that night where someone was shot in cold blood etc. well about 2 or 3 days later the ballistics reports come back on the man who was shot, they run it through the database and low and behold it matches your guns "fingerprints" meanwhile a hunter finds a gun laying in a ditch off the river and it happens to be your gun well next thing you know ur being accused of shooting a man and making false reports and ditching ur gun. the easiest thing about that is they have all the evidence against you the hardest thing is you trying to prove u didnt do it. not saying that it would happen to you but its not impossible for it to happen to someone else.

[Delta Duck]

Wildfowler, I feel sure a first year public defender could get you off in about 18 months. If you hired a lawyer he would not want much more than $50,000 retainer.

I really have a bad taste for those no count, low life, anti's. Enforce the laws we have on the books right now. Fry the killers in a timely manner, build how ever many jails we need. Make the convicts get up and work for 10 hours a day. Feed them generic macaroni and cheese, potted meat, or a lunch meat sandwich.
It would save the govt money in the long run!!

[Wildfowler]

Delta, are you suggesting that I would instantly be found guilty? I think that to be very unlikely.

True, I could possibly get questioned by the police. But in my defense, I am not a "shady" charecter. I'm not involved with drugs, gangs, robberies, breaking and entering, racketerring, organized crime, etc., etc. I don't have any motive. I still have to be proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt. Don't, I?

Hey, I'm with you, I don't like the idea of being told what to do with my guns. I'm not the one committing the crime. And I am not a proponent of of gun control. I agree with you Delta, enforce the laws that we have. Throw the criminals in jails where they belong.


You guys know a lot more about it than I do, but everyone seems to think that guns fingerprint is not 100 % accurate. It seems to me that it would be much easier to send this issue to it's grave by scientifically proving that it is in no means accurate enough of a process to be deployed in this country.

I was just trying to insert the notion (agreement) that it is not something that is reliable enough for nationwide usage.

[bubba]

wildfowler, you are exactly right. this is a waste of taxpayers money and time but that is what some of our government is trying to do and that is why we should all support the NRA, to protect this right of ours. i believe that you are a honest man and would never do that and so am i but i dont even want the police questioning me or anything else. i shouldnt have to prove myself to anyone but it can happen. people are put in jail everyday just from the results of running ballistics on guns and that is all the evidence they need in most cases. this fingerprinting has already gone into effect on handguns in some states and not a single case as proved anything so u would think that they would shut this down but there not. the antigun people want this because no matter what it proves, it is just another example of them trying to break down the 2nd ammendment. and if that passes and you have to have ur gun fingerprinted then that is just the same as you having ur gun registered with the government and that is taking away your 2nd ammendment. anyway i think this is a great discussion and hope that everyone sees this has my opinon and not trying to start anything. happy halloween.

[Delta Duck]

Wildfowler,
What I'm saying is they will bring you in for questioning, but in their book they have your gun matched to a murder of a school kid, or what ever. They found you gunr in a ditch with only your prints on the gun. I feel sure about half way through the questioning they would ask a question you might not want to answer. You say, I would like to talk to a lawyer now.
$$$$$$

If you were in Tunica, county I think the policy is your guilty until you pay to be not guilty

I can here the unqualified deputies know, Tat's that main with all them guns, he got big ole house and nice ride. He rich!!

Just because!!!

[injun_23]

Its not gun control that our Country needs, its CRIMINAL control. Make it an automatic 30 year prison term to be found guilty of a gun related crime.......of ANY kind. Make it so hard to be in prison that noone in his right mind would want to be there. Delta Duck was right on with his thinking. Work the heck out of them and use that resource to better that State or County like the old chain gangs. Its too easy to be a criminal these days.