Shock Collars

[River Hunter]

Nothing makes me more happy than to see my dog go out on a retrieve, yet i have one prob. He is going to break every time a gun goes off no matter what! I've heard about shock collars but dont know alot about them. Are they a good teaching tech. Can they be used in the water? Would you recomend them?

[Micah]

It's all about control and conditioning. Every time he breaks and gets away with it, it reinforces that behavior. I would suggest keeping the dog on a leash while hunting. Don't give him the opportunity to break, and scold him when he does try. He should get the picture unless he's extremely hard-headed.

If you've never used an e-collar and you don't have access to someone that can guide you in it's use, you could possibly ruin an otherwise good dog. I prefer to use traditional methods unless it's a problem that is difficult to deal with ("water freaking" for example).

The best practice though is to not let the dog develop bad habits.

That's my $.02.

Micah

[River Hunter]

Thanks Micah Ive done all the training myself this is the only prob i've come across(breaking). I use a leash most of the time I'm just trying to get him used to not breaking w/out it. He is a very smart dog It is just instincts that he should go when the gun goes off.

[damnyankee]

I went through the same dilemma w/my dog.
I attached a 12' rope to her so she could build up enough speed to send her into a cartwheel when see reached the end. Took only about 4 times and she quit breaking.

[Micah]

Sounds like my dog, except mine wants to go when the ducks hit the water. He can't stand to watch them light in the decoys.

Does anyone have any ideas on getting a dog to be quiet? Mine gets kinda vocal when he's fired up (right when the birds are about to light).

Thanks,
Micah

[River Hunter]

Micah the wineing when the ducks hit the water really poses a prob. for me to. He gets so excited when he sees the ducks in the air. If they hit the water it really gets bad. Thats why I was wondering if a shock collar would help the situation. Really dont want to use it if i dont have to

[backwater]

Do yourself a favor...leave your gun in the truck and let your buddies shoot. Handle the dog while they shoot. Do this a few times until he catches on. I know it sucks but sometimes it has to be that way. Use a leash or checkcord. When he's trying to break don't let him...use NO...STAY, etc. When you have down birds let 'em sit on the water for awhile...then send him. This teaches them patience and steadiness. Also...only let him pick up approximately 25% of the birds for now. You get the other 75%. They have to learn that not every bird is theirs when they want it. I probably haven't explained the concept well enough so check out some of Robert Milner's techniques. They work! PM me if I can help in anyway. Good luck!

[sportsman450]

I attached a 12' rope to her so she could build up enough speed to send her into a cartwheel when see reached the end. Took only about 4 times and she quit breaking.

Real good advice if you want permanent neck damage!

[backwater]

When they whine squeeze lemon juice in their mouth and tell 'em NO. Dogs can't stand the taste of it. Come to think of it neither do most normal people. Someone told me about this trick but lucky for me I haven't had to try it yet...just a good old fashioned boot in the booty did it fer my 'ol girl.

[River Hunter]

I thank yall for the advice, yet nobody has said a thing about shock collars. I take it that this is not a good teaching tech?

[backwater]

And yes shock collars do work and they are a very effective tool when used properly. One must know how to use them correctly. It's a shame but so many dogs are ruined by improper use. It can happen very fast so be careful if you decide to use one. Find a good trainer and ask them how many dogs they get that have been "burned too much." They make a living off trying to correct this sort of problem but a lot of times they are'nt successful. If they are abe to bring the dog back...it takes a lot of time and it is very expensive. Do some research and learn what to do and what not to do.

[chance]

Electronic collars are rarely used to corect a breaking problem. Reason being the dog may associate the correction to water. Then you would have a dog that refuses to hit the water. Training is the answer to your problem. You must seek ways to replicate conditions that would give your dog the "want to " to break. Maybe while honoring another dog's work. Maybe real short birds thrown close to your dog. Duck calling while training, shooting while training. Shooting live flyers to build the excitement level of your dog during training.
We will normally use a heeling stick to correct for breaking. When the dog raises his butt off the grund he would get a quick whack over the rear end and not be allowed to make the retrieve. May take you a number of sessions of this to get your dog to understand to not go until sent.
As Micah said, alowing your dog to retrieve is a reward. When you reward your dog while doing something undesirable simply reinforces the bad behavior. Hard to break bad behavior while hunting. Train, and then maintain your standards while hunting or you wll undue all the
good training.
Whining in the blind is difficult to stop. You will have to give up some of your shooting while working on this correcton. EVERYTIME your dog whines in the blind you must hold his mouth, preventing him from making noise and say"Quiet" some use "No Noise". You must do this everytime until your dog gets the connection of Quiet to actually being quiet.
You can get a lot of help and fellowship from folks in a retriever club. I urge you to look up and join your local club, no matter the affliation.

[dukdawgn]

collars are meant to reinterate what has already been taught.... not to teach on the spot. You can stop a dog from breaking with a collar, but you can just as easily give him a case of the "no-go's"..... you want to avoid this at all costs! I can't say that enough....

start by working your dog with a collar while in the yard....give him the general idea between good work and bad work with corrections. work on the issue of hyperness in the yard and it wont be such a battle when hunting.

Don't fry your dog with a collar. You shouldn't have to make him vocal.... trust me, he is feeling that thing whether you hear him or not!! Making him vocal will only break his spirits and make him think bad thoughts about the water and going into it. DO NOT LIGHT HIM UP WHEN A BIRD IS IN HIS MOUTH!! number one screw up! makes him think bird is hot...

I could go on and on.... but I'll save Goosebruce something to talk about. heheheheheh!!!

[mdb1]

Good advise from Dukdawgn. I would only add that the collar,if used correctly,will not break your dog's spirit at all-even if he does have a bird in his mouth. If you have conditioned your dog to the collar properly,he will respond properly.The collar is a tool to enforce your commands when your dog is not responding. If your dog is allowed to disobey your commands you are teaching him that he does not have to mind. My dog also breaks with the shot (not before-this is unacceptable to me). If he has marked the bird he goes directly for it,if not he will look to me for guidance. In the case of multiple retrieves where one of the birds is crippled and he heads for the wrong duck the problem with this is obvious,but you can stop him with the collar. Breaking with the shot is o.k. with me and could give your dog a haedstart on a cripple. Again there is no reason to use any more power than is necessary-if your dog vocalizes it is definitely too much-some dogs require more than others.You will get uot of your dog exactly what you put in to him.90% is making your dog mind. If the dog has no spirit or will not hunt ,you can't put that in him .

[KCM]

Get a Tri-Tronics collar, best around, I have the flyway special.
Next collars are used for enforcing commands the dog already knows not for teaching new ones.
Keep dog on a leash while hunting, until he calms down. If he does break jerk back on the collar until it rolls him, not so hard you give him whiplash though. All this is going to be hard to do while hunting and shooting but the more he goes the quicker he is going to learn his place in the blind. Whining, good quesion, that is my battle right now, I just keep him close and wrap my hand around his nose when he starts to whine and say "no", I do not use my collar for the command.
Practice and training, my best advice.