Take Me Back Tuesday: GLOBAL WARMING CORRAL

[Po Monkey Lounger]

You cannot "control" the MS River and its tributaries. You can only hope to contain it. Nor can you control the weather (we can't even accurately predict it).

People should NOT be living in flood plains --period. MOVE THEM OUT!!! Such a luxury or risk should only be born by businesses or individuals who can afford to accept the risk. Will be much cheaper in the long run to just pay them to move and return those flood plains to their natural state --- marshes, swamps, bottomlands, etc --- all of which would ultimately be cheaper, help the environment, and be safer for our citizens. IF they choose to stay, it should be at their own risk --- private funds or private insurance. It should NOT be the taxpayer's problem. Why should we continue to subsidize people living in areas (many times a luxury) next to or near water that they should not be residing in? Why should we continue to pay for expensive Corps projects designed to allow people to do something that they really should not be allowed to do? Why are we so arrogant as to think that we can "control" nature's fury? Such "control", no matter how well thought out or planned, is an illusion.

Ditto for crops grown in such flood plains. If you plant it, it should be at your risk, not the government's and taxpayers.

Already the Corp has to do an expensive environmental impact study before any Corp. project is approved. How is this new law different? Why add more beauracracy to an already hopelessly flawed system. The Corps currently pay little, if any, attention to the results of the environmental impact study, unless some group files a lawsuit. The proposed mitigation to offset any negative environmental impact cannot be enforced upon the Corp by a citizen. So, what is the point?

[Bullreds & Greenheads]

Po Monk nails it again.

[mudsucker]

Cold front gonna be here today! Can you say,"Global Cooling". They said that in the early '80s!

[JJ McGuire]

PML
I agree completely

[crackhead]

Are yall trying to make a run on the roll tide thread in the sports forum, If so you need five or six more pages

[Hammer]

HEY PML:

ARMCHAIR WARRIORS OFTEN FAIL, WE'VE BEEN POISONED BY YOUR FAIRY TALES, LAWYERS DWELL ON SMALL DETAILS....

REALITY:

WRDA UPDATE

It is unknown whether the Senate will be voting on the Global Warming and Prioritization Amendments today. Senate Majority Leader Reid (D-NV) plans to introduce two Iraq amendments to WRDA, and the Republicans also want to introduce two of their own Iraq amendments. With debate on these amendments pending, and since Congress has not yet voted on a "time agreement" - a specific schedule for considering our amendments - we have additional time to gather more co-sponsors.

GLOBAL WARMING AMENDMENT UPDATE:

Cosponsor list is growing! Cosponsors now include: Senators Kerry (D-MA), Feingold (D-WI), Collins (R-ME), Sanders (I-VT), Carper (D-DE), Biden (D-DE), Reed (D-RI), Whitehouse (D-RI) and Cantwell (D-WA).

PRIORITIZATION AMENDMENT UPDATE:

Cosponsor list is also growing! Cosponsors now include: Senators Feingold (D-WI), McCain (R-AZ), Coburn (R-OK), Carper (D-DE), Sununu (R-NH), Gregg (R-NH), and DeMint (R-SC).

ORGANIZATIONS ARE WEIGHING IN:

- 18 Florida organizations sent a letter Senators Nelson and Martinez
- 20 Great Lakes organizations sent a letter to their Senators
- 12 Louisiana organizations sent a letter to Senators Landrieu and Vitter
- 14 National Environmental organizations sent a letter to entire Senate.

TODAY'S EDITORIALS:

- Time for Texas leaders to warm up to idea of climatic challenges; Austin American Statesman
- Getting its act together - Corps should focus on biggest natural threats; Florida Today

[Hammer]

Getting its act together

Corps should focus on biggest natural threats

TERRY GIBSON
GUEST COLUMNIST

As Hurricane Katrina moved into the Gulf of Mexico and grew, it became clear that she would become a killer storm. But few Americans were aware of the Big Easy's vulnerability, thanks to the shoddy engineering "defending" it.

In Katrina's aftermath, Floridians became keenly aware of our own vulnerabilities, thanks to shoddy engineering by the same agency responsible for the New Orleans tragedy, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.

As the agency responsible for national flood and storm control, the Corps should have provided New Orleans with a more sustainable protection system, rather than 53 levies, which all failed.

Katrina made it horrifically clear that the water resources agenda in our country is broken.

Projects that should be funded according to need are instead prioritized by by politicians who work to benefit their constituents as a means of payback for campaign contributions or votes.

Currently, there is a $58 billion backlog of authorized, unconstructed Army Corps projects, with an additional $31.5 billion worth of projects to be added to the list.

Each year the Corps receives only $2 billion for construction funding -- meaning it would take 40 years just to clear the backlog. Corps reform and Congressional spending discipline are now imperative.

The first Water Resources Development Act (WRDA) since 2000 is expected to pass through this Congress.

Fortunately, the act would authorize vital projects for the nation's fisheries and maritime interests, including inlet maintenance dredging, Everglades restoration and restoration of the Indian River Lagoon.

But two vital, must-pass WRDA amendments are a proposed that would make the Corps more organized and efficient, and contribute to the safety and prosperity of all Americans.

The first amendment, sponsored by Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., and Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., addresses project prioritization by directing limited federal funds to meet the nation's most urgent needs.

A committee of eight members, appointed by the leadership of both parties and the president, would be charged with issuing a report prioritizing Corps projects based on a set of specific criteria. They would also recommend a process for adding additional authorizations and reconsidering future priorities.

This would cut back significantly on superfluous spending by allocating time and resources to the nation's most immediate flood-control, storm-control, and environmental restoration needs.

The other amendment, sponsored by Sen. Olympia Snowe, R-Maine, Feingold and Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., would require the Corps to use the best available climate science for project planning.

Florida is especially vulnerable to changes in weather and climate extremes, such as tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, and droughts and fires -- with direct implications for management of water resources.Corps beach projects in Florida perform very poorly partly because they fail to incorporate sea-level rise and more powerful hurricanes into their designs and cost/benefit analyses.

And it is critical the Corps factor in the best climate science, known as the REMER model, to ensure that Everglades restoration is successful. These two amendments deserve the support of our Florida senators, Democrat Bill Nelson and Republican Mel Martinez, both of Orlando.

Gibson is special projects editor for the Florida Sportsman Communications Network, and the Florida Recreational Fishing Advisor to the South Atlantic Fishery Management Council's Habitat Advisory Panel.

[GordonGekko]

ARMCHAIR WARRIORS OFTEN FAIL, WE'VE BEEN POISONED BY YOUR FAIRY TALES, LAWYERS DWELL ON SMALL DETAILS....

hmmm....okay....i'll give you points for quoting Bruce Hornsby/Don Henley....but, actually i think that line goes "...lawyers clean up all details" the "small details" part actually is in the first stanza, which is a little different.... if memory serves.....

carry on.....

[JJ McGuire]

First science, now lyrics, I am shocked at the continued and flagrant misrepresentation of the reality.

[Po Monkey Lounger]

Indeed --- hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, wildfires -- all are evidence and examples of dramatic climate change caused by man. We've never had those before.

There is NO scientific evidence that hurricanes are getting any stronger than they have been in the past, nor any more frequent.

Tornadoes are NOT occuring with any more frequency or strength than in the past. Any evidence suggesting such is due to the development of modern technology capabilities that allow better identification of tornadoes.

Floods have always occurred near rivers, and will continue to do so despite the very best efforts of man to "control" them. Control of the mighty Mississippi River is merely an illusion and folly of man.

Wildfires are not new, and most often the most damaging wildfires are the result of poor forest/land management practices due to misguided attempts by those seeking to "preserve" natural habitat. All natural habitat changes, on its own, over time. Man is often trying to preserve what cannot be preserved. But, it can be managed through prescribed controlled burns, selective harvest, and other management techniques. Even the native american indians, who lived in North America before the white eye came over, engaged in forest and land management practices to enhance wild game habitat ---eg controlled burns, etc.

But, I suppose there will always be some who will never learn the lessons of history and nature. For those, it is more convenient to live in a fantasy world, oblivious to the harsh realities of nature, and blame some boogyman (man, global warming, global cooling, George Bush, the government, THE MAN, etc. etc. ) for the inevitable disasters that will occur when man arrogantly attempts to "control" that which cannot be controlled.

For example, it is waaaaay too harsh to simply suggest that large amounts of people should not be living in areas well below sea level in the New Orleans, LA area ---especially those dependent upon others, the government, etc. who cannot afford the risk and cannot help themselves. Ditto with respect to areas all up and down the MS River. Ditto with respect to much of our Gulf Coast shores. Thus, it is up to the taxpayers to pay billions, upon billions of dollars to build infrastructure to allow these people to live in areas that normally would not be habitable. And when the inevitable disaster occurs, and it will, "others" will be to blame.

Katrina was just a CAT 3 when it hit. Imagine what a CAT 5 upon landfall would do if it directly hit the NO area. IF it can happen, it eventually will. And there is no way that man can protect the City of NO and surrounding areas that are well below sea level from a CAT 5 Hurricane, regardless of how many canals are built, water pumps installed, etc. Those former swamps need to be turned back into swamps. If any redevelopment is allowed, it should only be commercial or by those with the ability to assume the risk.

Blaming the damage of Katrina on the Corps of Engineers, the state of LA, the City of NO, George Bush, global warming, etc. is pure folly and nonsense. It is simply mother nature. And it WILL happen again. The question really should be will anyone heed the lessons of history and start making better land use decisions, however painful?

[JDgator]

I'm predicting that the state of mississippi will begin planning for the impact of rising sea levels on our coasts in the next five years. I hope we aren't experiancing climate change, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

[Bullreds & Greenheads]

I have absolutely no problem with coastal restoration projects. Lousiana is washing into the sea, and it has nothing to do with global warming. It has to do with the sediment of the Mississippi River being forced to flow into the Gulf of Mexico thanks to the levee system, instead of into the marsh where it belongs and where it can do some good.

[MSDawg870]

I have absolutely no problem with coastal restoration projects. Lousiana is washing into the sea, and it has nothing to do with global warming. It has to do with the sediment of the Mississippi River being forced to flow into the Gulf of Mexico thanks to the levee system, instead of into the marsh where it belongs and where it can do some good.

A good book to read on this very thing, Bayou Farewell. I can't remember the author off hand.

[Hammer]

You failed to mention the saltwater intrusion from the Intercoastal Waterway and oil and gas canals...It is the combined effect of lack of new land from reduced sediment AND saltwater intrusion from the Gulf that is causing a football field per day of land to be lost...

To my knowledge no one has yet calculated the effect of rising sea levels on coastal losses in LA but it is likely to be a factor as it was in MA where the Supreme Court found that the REASON that MA had STANDING to sue EPA was the loss of land in MA caused by rising sea levels caused by GW.

PML makes a good point about the MR&T but he misses the point on GW...While Man clearly cannot contol the Mississippi River, he darn sure can spew enough CO2 and other GHG into the atmosphere to affect the climate just like he spewed enough CFC into the atmosphere to make a hole in the Ozone layer and he spewed enough SO2 and NOX emissions into the atmosphere to cause acid rain...

The Corps has prevented a major flood on the Lower Mississippi since levee reconstruction in the mid-1930s but the clock is constantly ticking...Given that there are two major earthquake faults beneath the River (New Madrid Fault runs north and south, White River runs east and west), I would not want to be in the Delta during water when the ground starts shaking. Ditto for being in Baton Rouge or New Orleans the next time the River hits 3MM CFS...The last time that happened, the Ole River Control Structure was shaking so bad that they parked coal trains on it in hopes of preventing its failure...Unlike 1927 or 1973, there arent nearly as many wetlands left between the levees to protect them, much less wetlands left outside the levees to slow the River down when the inevitable crevasse occurs. Failure of the Mississiippi River levee anywhere in the Delta would make Katrina look like a tea party.

[Hammer]

MORE EVIDENCE THAT PML IS FIGHTING A LOSING BATTLE AND HAS HIS HEAD EITHER (A) STUCK IN THE SAND OR (B) UP HIS booty

WASHINGTON - The Climate Registry now has thirty one states as its members in order to keep track of as well as tackle greenhouse gas emissions. Two Canadian provinces have also committed to join the registry, according to a release. This means that some 70 percent of the total US population falls under the purview of the registry.

The Climate Registry aims to record the emissions spewed out by industries, vehicles and municipalities within the states and also try and find ways to tackle them.

"The Registry gives business and policymakers an essential accounting tool for tracking the success of the many emerging global warming emission reduction initiatives that are blossoming across the country," said Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) president Frances Beinecke. "You have to be able to count carbon pollution in order to cut carbon pollution."

The states that are already a signatory to the Climate Registry include (in alphabetical order) Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Utah, Vermont, Washington, Wisconsin, Wyoming and the Campo Kumeyaay Nation.

Greenhouse gas emissions are on the top of the agenda in several states and this new tool is bound to co-ordinate the effort to reduce emissions in a regulated manner. for more information, please visit, http://www.theclimateregistry.org/.