Can of worms!

[pntailhntr]

Ok guys, I know there is going to be alot of flack and alot of people agreeing with this. But SOMETHING has GOT TO BE DONE!!!

I"m sure all of you have heard people talk about DU feeding the ducks. Well I never believed it, always took up for DU saying it wasn't true. Well, I was talking to my best friend from high schools dad the other day. He lives in South LA and REALLY KNOWS HIS DUCKS!! He was wondering why the hell they dont' have ducks anymore like they did 15-20 years ago. He had been hearing all the stuff about DU feeding the ducks and he was also a DU supporter at the time. He decided to go up to MO and Illinois and check it out for himself. He said their is corn and grain all over the ground up there. Farmers told him DU was paying them to spread the corn out of the combines and they were making tons of money off duck hunters. They said it was a little more beneficial for them to do that than sell their crops as they normally would.

Reason - DU basically started down here. All the money was coming from the south where all the farmers and hunters were. We were the ones giving all the money for the ducks. Then all of a sudden, DU has all these HUGE salaries to pay so they had to start going to other states to raise more money. At that time farmers in other states were saying, you are doing all this to get ducks to migrate south and out of here, why should we give you all our money when the ducks are headed south?? They then proceeded to tell them what they would do to help them and now all are ducks are held up all along the freeze line where there is an ABUNDANCE of food because DU has paid for it to be there. If the food wasn't there anymore they would have to leave the freeze line and move ahead of it making the weather not that HUGE of a factor!!

Is there anything wrong with this? Basically, no, for us down here trying to shoot a duck, hell yea! We started this years ago by giving all our money to DU, we must stop it by NOT giving our money to DU and telling them why. Now, I used to be a DU chairman, Was a chairman for 2 years and just a committee member for 2 years after that. I loved DU up untill the other day. We must take a stand and do something to stop this and the only way I know how, is to spread the word as the TRUTH, and stop giving money to DU. I know the magazines are good, but you can get your DU magazine back when they start helping us get ducks back to the south!!!!!! They will eventually come back to us and ask us why we are not giving, then WE can be the ones to ask them, what are you going to do for US!!!???

[Roach]

Robby, say it ain't so!
The truth will set you free.

[pntailhntr]

Sorry, but this man saw it with his own eyes, and this is one man I WILL believe.

[cajuncannon]

truth.com - i don't mean to go all spartacus, but as long as people giving money and not speaking up, they're going to keep screwing us. It's funny b/c for years people have been saying to stop funding du, but no one ever does anything about it. It's really not that hard - you're basically paying money to save habitat and ultimately increase duck numbers, but if you're money is actually going to decrease duck numbers around here, what's the point? Now du will probably give you some song and a dance about the greater good, but it's b.s. it's similar to that crap about du spending money to keep the fields and stuff from freezing over to keep ducks in arkansas. Those people bitching up north are complaining about no ducks, but there is a reason for that - ducks are supposed to migrate south, and by altering their natural patterns (which is what they're supposed to be trying to prevent), they're doing more harm than good. all it's going to take is something crazy like a catastrophic winter storm or something to cripple the duck popluation to undo all of the work people have done over the years. in any case, du doesn't give a baker's "@#$%#" about us down here b/c it's all about the money. we keeping giving without complaint, and as long as we keep giving, they're going to keep taking. we need to stop bitching and initiate some change. start a revolution.

[pntailhntr]

DU stands for a good cause. Don't get me wrong, BUT, they need to keep their work confined to WETLANDS, and stay away from the grain fields. they need to work on the Prarie Potholes and stay out of Illinios and Missouri, and etc. The only way to do it to spread the word. We can all go back once the job has been done, but they need to know, we know and we mean business!!!

"I'M MADDER THAN HELL AND I AINTA GONNA TAKE IT NO MORE" -CDB

[gator]

THIS IS THE BESTESTEST POST I'VE SEEN EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE INTRAWEB.....

gator

[Chad Manlove]

Ok guys, I know there is going to be alot of flack and alot of people agreeing with this. But SOMETHING has GOT TO BE DONE!!!

I"m sure all of you have heard people talk about DU feeding the ducks. Well I never believed it, always took up for DU saying it wasn't true. Well, I was talking to my best friend from high schools dad the other day. He lives in South LA and REALLY KNOWS HIS DUCKS!! He was wondering why the hell they dont' have ducks anymore like they did 15-20 years ago. He had been hearing all the stuff about DU feeding the ducks and he was also a DU supporter at the time. He decided to go up to MO and Illinois and check it out for himself. He said their is corn and grain all over the ground up there. Farmers told him DU was paying them to spread the corn out of the combines and they were making tons of money off duck hunters. They said it was a little more beneficial for them to do that than sell their crops as they normally would.

Reason - DU basically started down here. All the money was coming from the south where all the farmers and hunters were. We were the ones giving all the money for the ducks. Then all of a sudden, DU has all these HUGE salaries to pay so they had to start going to other states to raise more money. At that time farmers in other states were saying, you are doing all this to get ducks to migrate south and out of here, why should we give you all our money when the ducks are headed south?? They then proceeded to tell them what they would do to help them and now all are ducks are held up all along the freeze line where there is an ABUNDANCE of food because DU has paid for it to be there. If the food wasn't there anymore they would have to leave the freeze line and move ahead of it making the weather not that HUGE of a factor!!

Is there anything wrong with this? Basically, no, for us down here trying to shoot a duck, hell yea! We started this years ago by giving all our money to DU, we must stop it by NOT giving our money to DU and telling them why. Now, I used to be a DU chairman, Was a chairman for 2 years and just a committee member for 2 years after that. I loved DU up untill the other day. We must take a stand and do something to stop this and the only way I know how, is to spread the word as the TRUTH, and stop giving money to DU. I know the magazines are good, but you can get your DU magazine back when they start helping us get ducks back to the south!!!!!! They will eventually come back to us and ask us why we are not giving, then WE can be the ones to ask them, what are you going to do for US!!!???

Total B.S. DU does not pay farmers to spread grain. This subject comes up every year. And every year, I answer this question the same way. If you really want to know what DU is doing in a particular state, please contact a DU biologist. Contact information is listed on the DU website. Spreading false rumors will not help conservation efforts in the MS Flyway.

Does Missouri have lots of food? Absolutely! Farmers are growing corn and leaving it UNHARVESTED for the ducks. Guys are leasing these fields for big money in the St. Louis area. Some anecdotal reports indicate over 5,000 acres of corn is left standing for ducks in St. Charles County Missouri. These farmers are not paid by DU. They are indirectly paid by HUNTERS wanting to kill ducks.

[duramax]

I can't believe people are still ignorant enough to believe this "friend of a friend knows..." crap. If people would simply stop and think for one second about what is going on. Do you really...REALLY think that putting corn out in fields is going to stop MILLIONS of ducks from migrating. IT WAS 80 DAMN DEGREES THIS WEEKEND! Do you not think that that has ANYTHING to do with it?

Secondly. If DU was paying farmers to leave their grains on the ground, it would take THOUSANDS of farmers collectively to even make a dent in migration habits of ducks. Do you really think that thousands of farmers would remain tight lipped about that?

If people would have actually gone to some of the states north of Arkansas back in the "glory days of duck hunting" in Arkansas and Mississippi, and see how much food is already there, and has always been there. Putting more down wouldn't change anything. Go to Iowa, South Dakota, Nebraska, and you will see miles and miles of corn, wheat, and other grain fields. Putting more corn and wheat on the ground would do nothing. If there isn't snow on the ground there, and there is still open water, ducks won't move. With the government handing out subsidies for the biggest gov't scam in recent history (ethanol) there is now more corn by far that there has ever been. You still think that having farmers leaving some of it on the ground can do anything to migration habits?

Lastly. The legality of it. All the dove and duck hunters should know about "normal farming practices". If a farmer "happens" to spill some grain in the field you are hunting, that is not normal hunting practices. Do you think if game wardens were finding these farms where there is "grain all over the ground" and farmers were leaving it there, you don't think they would be going ticket crazy? And if they did get a ticket, you don't think they would be raising hell saying "DU paid me to!".

All this 15-20 years ago talk is really tiresome. Ask any hunter that was hunting back then and ask how many duck hunters there were back then and compare it to now. Every flooded rice field from Jonesboro to the southern delta has a duck lease on it now. The pressure from hunters has gone sky high. Also, take a look at the average temperatures that were in the winters of the 80's and compare them to now. Ask why ducks aren't coming down like they were. While you are at it. See when farmers started practicing zero tillage practices. Where they don't till up there crop fields after harvesting to reduce erosion of soil and reduce spring run off.

Please.

[gator]

what ya'll are missing dura and chad is the passion............the passion of a wildfowler needing answers!

i mean c'mon gent'men, SURELY no one on this forum would post unbalanced, uninformed and frankly, unintelligent information.........no way, don't believe it.

i repeat

THIS IS THE BESTESTEST POST I'VE SEEN EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE INTRAWEB.....

gator

[cwink]

Last time I checked the stats most of the ducks were killed in Arkansa, TX,Louisanna and MS. If I am not mistaken that is still the South right?

[Chad Manlove]

What are you going to do for US!!!???

Ducks Unlimited- Serving the South

Projects on Public Lands in Mississippi and Louisiana Increase Hunting Opportunities

RIDGELAND, Miss., December 6, 2007 – Duck hunting has been highly variable in the South in recent winters. Biologists can point to no single cause, but mild weather through the winter period is surely a significant factor. When Old Man Winter does make an appearance, however, Ducks Unlimited is working to assure that sufficient habitat exists in the South to accommodate waterfowl and waterfowl hunters.

To date, Ducks Unlimited has completed 51 projects on public lands in Louisiana and 58 in Mississippi, including many state and federal lands that provide waterfowl hunting opportunities.

In Mississippi, projects like the ongoing one at Malmaison Wildlife Management Area not only provide improved habitat for wintering waterfowl, but also increase hunting opportunities in the state.

“Our engineering and biological staff have an ambitious workload planned for the forthcoming year in Mississippi,” said Chris Cole, Director of Conservation Programs in Mississippi. “Plans include Phase III of the wetlands development at Coldwater National Wildlife Refuge, infrastructure upgrades to two wetland tracts on Delta National Forest and restoration work at Malmaison WMA.”

The Ducks Unlimited Southern Regional Office, located in Ridgeland, MS, carries out conservation programs in 15 southern states that include some of the most important wintering habitat on the continent.

Two-thirds of North America’s waterfowl spend the winter in Ducks Unlimited’s Southern Region. Ducks and geese depend on habitat at southern latitudes to feed, rest, and build vital energy reserves. Research shows the quality of habitat on the wintering grounds affects winter survival rates and the physical condition of birds returning north. Better wintering habitat may lead to a more productive nesting season, and more ducks flying south in the fall.

Ducks Unlimited also works hard to protect habitat in the Prairie Pothole Region because efforts there have a direct impact on ducks in the South. Known as the “duck factory”, breeding grounds across the Northern U.S. and Canada produce the vast majority of waterfowl wintering in the South.

“Our science tells us there is no place on this continent where we can have a bigger impact on waterfowl populations than the prairies,” said Dr. Curtis Hopkins, Director of the Southern Region of Ducks Unlimited. Unfortunately, we are seeing wholesale destruction of critical nesting habitat in the prairies.

“We need solid support from southern duck hunters to maintain the necessary habitat base in the prairies that will yield fall flights to support liberal seasons. If we continue to lose grasslands and wetlands in the prairies, restrictive seasons could be the norm and closed seasons could be a real possibility,” said Dr. Scott Stephens, Director of Conservation Planning for Ducks Unlimited’s Great Plains Office in Bismarck, North Dakota.

“Ducks Unlimited will continue to keep this critical conservation focus now and in the future, but that doesn’t mean we are ignoring vital wintering and migration areas,” Hopkins said.

Many waterfowl produced in the prairies, especially mallards, find the bottomland hardwood forests of the Mississippi Alluvial Valley ideal wintering habitat. However, nearly 80 percent of those forests were cleared for agriculture and other purposes, and over 50 percent of the wetlands have been lost.

The Wetlands Reserve Program, administered by USDA Natural Resources Conservation Service, has restored more than 500,000 wetland acres in Arkansas, Louisiana, and Mississippi. Ducks Unlimited has played an important role in the restoration work on land enrolled in WRP. Those lands are now providing important habitat for waterfowl and other wetland associated wildlife.

For some waterfowl, the MAV is not a final destination, but a stopover on the way to another continentally important wintering area - the Gulf Coast.

Coastal wetlands provide vital winter habitat for waterfowl, but large areas have been lost or degraded. For example, Louisiana alone has lost over 1 million acres of coastal wetlands that were among the most productive in North America. Today, natural and human-induced changes have severely compromised the region’s ability to support waterfowl.

“Historically, the Gulf Coast has wintered upwards of 13 million ducks and 1.5 million geese. That is why this area is among Ducks Unlimited’s highest priorities,” said Jerry Holden, Director of Conservation Programs in Louisiana. Ducks Unlimited has committed $15 million to restore wetlands in coastal Louisiana through its ongoing Wetlands for Tomorrow campaign.

Ducks Unlimited and its partners work hard continent-wide to make certain there are sufficient wetlands to fill the skies with waterfowl today, tomorrow, and forever. Without the support of our members and conservation partners in the South, that mission can never be achieved.

[pntailhntr]

Lastly. The legality of it. All the dove and duck hunters should know about "normal farming practices". If a farmer "happens" to spill some grain in the field you are hunting, that is not normal hunting practices. Do you think if game wardens were finding these farms where there is "grain all over the ground" and farmers were leaving it there, you don't think they would be going ticket crazy? And if they did get a ticket, you don't think they would be raising hell saying "DU paid me to!".

All they have to do is run a disc over it and it's legal. all they have to do is open up the hoppers every other pass and spead it around. There is nothing wrong with that and DU will subsidize that loss as will the hunters on the land.

Look, I have always liked DU, but the weather is not THAT different than it was 20 years ago. We are still having Ice storms like one right now, there is still tons of snow in the dekotas, and illinois and even Missouri for that matter. But when the food is that abundant, they dont' have to leave the freeze line. They have been planting corn and grain up there for years and years, so why NOW all of a sudden, there is more food on the ground.

Yes, there were less hunters 15 to 20 years ago, and there was a 3 duck limit, I WOULD KILL to go back to the 3 duck limit, DIE FOR IT!!! But that aint happnin, WHY because duck season is over in december up north where the birds are staying and the population IS growing so the numbers can justify it.

If DU isn't doing it, then who is. Why would a farmer tell my buddies dad, he gets subsidies from DU to leave grain on the field!!! WHY would a biologist tell anybody from the south what they are doing?? They would lose TONS of money including YOURS!!! I feel your pain, I DO NOT want to believe, never have, I fought back tooth and nail everytime this post came up but now I hear this from a credible source. I too have converted!!

I agree with the preassure, that is why I would like to lower the limits to, to get rid of the hunters who only hunt to shoot 6 ducks and won't waste their time with 3 ducks and are driving up lease prices. Good Stay home, your not a true duck hunter anyway.

WE NEED TO FIX THE PROBLEM!!! OR WE AND OUR CHILDREN WILL NEVER HAVE THE HUNTS WE USED TO HAVE. IF WE DO, THEY WILL BE EXTREMELY SPARSE!!!

[duramax]

Thank you Gator for bringing a little humor to how ridiculous these statements are.

Another thing people can do is talk to anyone who goes on field hunts up north. Ask them how thick the ground is with waste grains. I was born in Canada, and I go up and hunt every fall since I left. You can walk thru a wheat field that has been harvested and grab handfulls of wheat that wasn't picked up by the farmers. These aren't fields that "DU paid the farmer to leave extra or put extra grain on. It's what is left. It is the same way all the way down the corn and wheat belt of the USA. If there isn't snow on top of these grains, big fat green heads will munch on them as long as they can have access to open water.

Also, keep in mind that by vast majority, mallards are the ones to feed in dry fields. What about all the rest of the duck species that get their food from moist soil plants? Widgeon, gadwall, teal, etc. Teal, spoonies, pintails, and all the rest of the early migrators, and will usually come down anyways. What is your explanation for them? I guess DU is keeping responible for the temperatures not getting below freezing in the Midwest to freeze up the small waters too.

[pntailhntr]

What are you going to do for US!!!???

Ducks Unlimited- Serving the South

Without the support of our members and conservation partners in the South, that mission can never be achieved.

You said it right there, they need support from the south. I'm not saying we never need to give it. I saying we need to step up and stop what is going on in the northern areas. Without money and support. The bad thing about DU, is that TOOOO MUCH of the money is going to Salaries and other stuff. I understand it is big business but it is becoming something else other than DU. I never said DU has done nothing for us in the south, they have done a TON, look at what you just wrote, and they are continuing to do, BUT, The spillage of grain needs to stop, that is what we are saying, and DU is subsidizing it, and why tell us, you said it yourself, They can't do it without support from the members and partners in the south.

[duramax]

We are still having Ice storms like one right now, there is still tons of snow in the dekotas, and illinois and even Missouri for that matter. But when the food is that abundant, they dont' have to leave the freeze line. They have been planting corn and grain up there for years and years, so why NOW all of a sudden, there is more food on the ground.

It was 80 degrees in the delta this weekend. It will be 45 degrees in St. Louis on Wednesday. If you think that ducks will move when its that warm, you need to re-evaluate.

Like I said, I'm from Canada, I remeber killing ducks when it was 20 below zero up there. Why did we kill mallards when it was that cold? No snow! Fields were still full of grain, and a lake about 5 miles away still had open water.

If you still are ignorant enough to think that adding more grains to fields in addition to no till farming practices could EVER change how many mallard we have down here, I guess you are hopeless. You also neglected to mention why you think we aren't killing as many of the other species of ducks. It couldn't be that every other field is flooded for ducks and duck hunters from Arkansas down to spread out those birds.