As a judge....

[goosebruce]

Nose is almost impossible to test specfically for, scenting condtions change hourly, sometimes from dog to dog and sometimes signifcally if a bird falls couple foot one way or another. "judges should be quick to note a good nose, but not so quick to markdown for lack of nose as its difficult to determine at times" is a paraphrase from the rule book about nose. Theres a box that says areas judged on a sheet, nose, style, gun safety. control, all that. I put pluses or minuses next to it as I see something noteworthy. Only 2x I ever remember minusing a dogs nose, it ended with a discussion with the handler about it, and both dogs ended up with health problems that poor nose was one of the first signs the dogs had. Of course some dogs show the super sniffer, but you generally got a feel for where a dog should and would get a snoot full. I would be very hesistant about marking down for poor nose, because more than likely the mechanics of test are at fault than a dog.

Troy the series you mentioned you where not dropped for lack of nose. From what I understand (and mind you, I didn't understand that test, because they where NOT looking for what I would have been if I had set that up), they dropped your dog for perserverence.... he didn't enter the cover the crippled flyer did. Nevermind they couldn't control where the bird went, or even knew where the bird went, the dog went to where it fell, and hunted as long as Ive seen a dog hunt, and you handled when he got HOT and tried to leave. You could hunt, or handle, but not both was a quote from one of those fellas. Now, how a dog can hunt diligently for the delayed wipe out flyer where it fell, where the rest of them fell, and be failed for perserverence for not entering the cover where the cripple went (according to bird boys on radio), but remember the first bird down, yet dogs that ran the bank on the left mark, and handled from the line on the first bird down be passed, I dont know. didnt know then, dont know now. It was wrong, by every stretch of dog knowledge I had then, and dont see it any better now. But nose wasn't there reason, even though there reasons where all over the place. travis

[Troy Williams]

A great dog story about training up north this year:

I was shooting the flier. It was raining a nice little drizzle, a 10-12 mph wind, cloudy and about 65 degrees. Nice cool morning. Test was a long Single retired; then, a shorter double. My flyer and a shorter retired mark in a hay field that needed clipped. Mine was the go bird on the double. I shot a couple for the first dogs then up comes Cody, the open high point male at one point this year. I think he is in 4th place now for Open points, not sure. Anyway. Long single: decent job. The short double and Boom, Boom for my flyer. Sends dog and he hunts the fall pretty tight and I was impressed with the hunt. Then Moody asked for help as he couldn't get it and was starting to leave. Dog seemed strangley birdy but it was the flyer afterall and it made more sense as it unfolded. So anyway I tried to help. Dog disregarded and refused. Help a little more aggressively; No answer from dog. So I go nuts trying to help. NOTHING!. Moody's blowing the whistle now and hollering "come here". No response. The dog is basically now leaving and soon hunting on the way out of the test and out of sight without so much as a "hey how ya doin?" So with all that hollering from me , Moody's whistle and his hollerin, dog is gone. Moody's walking out now to go and get the dog. About the time he makes the trip from the line to my AOF, about 150-175 yds maybe, dog returns from who knows where with the flier still alive and wing broke. He tracked it for 150+ yards in the rain in knee high wet grass after an extended hunt in the AOF and brought it back.

I thought of that dog and this story when Travis made his post.

Troy

[Doc & Nash]

I would call it marked and give him an A+ for the recovery

That old saying "Trust your Dog" comes to mind......

[Troy Williams]

I would call it marked and give him an A+ for the recovery

That old saying "Trust your Dog" comes to mind......

There aren't many that I trust...That will get you sent hom early!

Certainly an impressive retrieve but there was absolutely no reason to trust the dog during this training test. That flyers was hit. It "poofed" as I hit it; got knocked another couple of feet with the hit and fell dead (or so we thought). We both had every impression it was a good hit. So there was nothing to do but try to get the dog back. Didn't work, but..............

Troy

[Troy Williams]

Troy the series you mentioned you where not dropped for lack of nose. From what I understand (and mind you, I didn't understand that test, because they where NOT looking for what I would have been if I had set that up), they dropped your dog for perserverence.... he didn't enter the cover the crippled flyer did. travis

You know that is the test that I didn't finish with Stone. Remember that? He got called back and I was a no show. haha...I forgot about that.

the explanation from the judge was.."you dog should have come up with that bird. A master dog would have gotten that bird". He left it open for my interpretation as to what specifically I was zero'd on. We both thought that there is no way it could have been perseverance with that hunt that he set up; it was a super hunt maybe the best of his life to date. We both thought that maybe they zero'd his nose.?. Who knows?

No matter really...That was an all around crazy weekend. You fell flat on your back on the blind with Rowdy. Cody got a crazy test and we left with Stone still playin with the 3rd series left to run and didn't come back.

Troy

[goosebruce]

I took he thought cody should have entered that cover. In reality, there was no reason for cody to enter that cover.. the dog hunted where the bird fell, and where dozens of other flyers had fallen. One of the shooters radioed into the judge and told them your bird had just passed them, thats how you knew to cast the dog into that cover.... I remembered them saying 'a master dog should enter that cover', and that'd be totally true if the bird had fallen back there, and the dog had any reason to. Had there not been 30 some odd falls out there before, maybe he would have tracked the bird into that cover... who knows.

The jist of the test (for the rest of ya'll). Double walk up honor, orange ping pong paddle from one judge signals bird boy on top of hill to throw middle bird, eyeball high from behind one tree, in front of another tree, left bird thrown on side hill on other side of small pond in the woods. Pick up go bird, and as your dog returned to heel with it, flyer shot on top of hill to right. After flyer, first bird down remained to be picked up. In my mind, the test was designed who'd remember that first bird down, after the orginal go bird, and then a wipe out type flyer. Mechanical nightmare, as when your bird came out made a difference (you where walking thru woods when the first bird came out), and if the flyer didnt land in a small area, it was likely to land where you couldnt get it, not to mention big difference in drain on memory depending on your flyer. Flyers do somethings well, something nothing else will. But they can also simply be expensive marks that are nightmares mechanics-wise. To me, the first bird down WAS the test, after all a go bird, and a wiper flyer neither are memory tests. Troys cody dog after that tounge fatting hunt, handle out of the fall to where escaping bird was, came back and KILLED the first bird down. I dont understnad it then, or now. Rowdy killed his marks, and then when handling on first blind I stepped in a hole and fell flat on my back, like a turtle tumped on its back. Had my kahki aksea pants on and everythingy. Apprently rowdy thinks a missing handler is a left over to the old fall.... he got there and stopped, knowing I didnt send him but didnt know where I was for any more direction. Handled out of it once I got on my feet, and lined other blind, but apprently falling on yur gator and yur dog ending up in the old fall is automatic dq. bwhahahahahha, one of the funniest things Ive ever seen in a test. travis