23 Minutes in Hell

[bdb133]

I'D LIKE TO GET A FEW MORE OPINIONS/REASONS WHY YOU BELIEVE OR DON'T BELIEVE THIS COULD REALLY HAPPEN. I JUST STARTED THE BOOK LAST NIGHT AND AM LOOKING FOR SOME INSIGHT. EITHER WAY SO FAR I BELIEVE THIS IS AN EXCELLENT BOOK FOR EDUCATING PEOPLE ON THE REALITY OF HELL. BUT I JUST DON'T KNOW ENOUGH SCRIPTURE YET TO REALLY KNOW FOR SURE IF IT CAN HAPPEN. THANKS

[Deep Woods]

I would suggest reading and studying the Word of GOD, praying and seeking the LORD about what the scriptures say and mean, first. GOD gave us Revelations and the rest of His Word and that is enough to educate anyone on the reality of hell. We tend to want to read the latest book by the most popular author at the present, we tend to forget that without God none of these "authors" would be here.....After reading the Bible, then if you must read a man's book you will hopefully have enough knowledge of the Word of GOD to discern the writings of man.

[bdb133]

I don't inderstand why your are knocking this book so hard. I do read and study the bible, but I also enjoying other peoples perspective on these things. Right or wrong books like this can lead you to a better understanding of the word, and can also lead people who don't read the bible, but might take an interest in it, to the Lord.

[Deep Woods]

I don't inderstand why your are knocking this book so hard. I do read and study the bible, but I also enjoying other peoples perspective on these things. Right or wrong books like this can lead you to a better understanding of the word, and can also lead people who don't read the bible, but might take an interest in it, to the Lord.

I hope to explain here my thoughts on this book and situation, so here goes......

I just can't find anywhere in scripture where we are supposed to look outside of God's Word for a better understanding of His Word. The Holy Spirit helps us to understand God's Word, not some book written by a modern day author that will no doubt be forgotten within a few years but GOD's WORD will continue to stand forever. When we seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit and follow Him, we will not need "other peoples perspective" on anything. God's Word is sufficient and more than enough for us to live by and be lead by.
I am reminded here as I type this, of the scripture in John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Another thing that bothers me, is if he saw all this and spent 23 minutes in hell then I doubt that God would want him to use it for monetary gain, God surely wants his people warned but I don't believe a true prophet would even think of using God's warning to make a living with. God offers us all He has for free and somehow I see books and stories like this as a ploy to make money.
In Mark 6:8 it says "And commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save a staff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in their purse:"
So this lets me know, that if God sent this guy to warn others, he would be doing God's work without trying to get monetary gain from it. If this was truly a warning sent by GOD, this guy would be freely giving these books away to everybody he could and not padding his own bank account.

People will go around and tell everyone they see about the new book out that they just read about this guy or that guy doing this or going here or there. When they should be telling people about JESUS CHRIST and the stories in the Bible that they just read.
Is it not amazing that the 3 Hebrew children were thrown into the furnace but they came out without even the smell of smoke on them, their bindings were burnt off but not even the smell of smoke on them….(ain’t GOD is awesome!!!!!!) but the ones that threw them in were burned up just from getting to close to the opening of the furnace. I’m telling you that account of a miracle of God never gets old to me and it should not to anyone, neither should any of the accounts of miracles, healings, battles won, evil conquered and etc. in God’s Word. I don’t see a need for another person’s perspective, when I have God’s point of view on everything.
By looking to another persons perspective, I am in turn saying God’s point of view or warning, etc. is not sufficient and for me, I do not wish to be in that position.

You said you didn’t understand why I was knocking the book so hard, well I have let you know my thoughts. That’s my take on the book and story, just my opinion. To every man his own…huh?

God bless you

[bdb133]

Yeah I see your point and I agree with it. I am not nearly as knowledgeable on the scripture yet as I want to be so thanks for verse and pointing that out. I guess the point I was trying to make about this book or any book of this type is that even if it was written for the wrong purpose that God could use it in some way to draw in non-believers who have no interest in the bible. But again i'm not that knowledgeable on the scripture so I could be wrong.

[skywalker]

Didn't Peter, Paul and others teach others and share words they had written? I enjoy reading commentaries and other books as well. Yes, Scripture takes precedence, but I would be very arrogant to say that I can't learn from another man. As the eunuch told Phillip, how can I understand unless some man teach me. Yes, the Holy Spirit teaches and gives guidance, but men can also be used as instruments of God to teach others.

Now, whether the financial gain is the motive or not, I cannot say. Do I believe this truly happened to this man? No, personally I don't. However, if it reaches a lost soul and they begin to seek out a Savior, more power to him for helping build the Kingdom of God. Jude stated to 'save some with fear', maybe this is what the author is trying to do.

[bdb133]

+1 You said what I was trying to get out. haha

[SWAG]

I guess we should just throw away all those nice Sunday School books and literature that cost so much?

I see no problem with people reading books. Yes the Bible is the first and foremost written authority on all things. It is the record that carries the most weight. It is the guide for the future. That being said, how many preachers do you know who do not have a book or two or 100 even, sitting on their book shelf? I know nothing of the book Wingman is referring to, but I know from his post he is well read in scripture. If a certain book or article raises questions or enlightens someone's thoughts to want to know more, it has positive attributes. Hell scares me as well it should. Sometimes I need to be scared some more. If the book raises a fear that makes someone investigate how to escape such a sentence then it has done something good. Will I read it? Maybe. Would I recommend or advise against it without having read it? No.

[bohuntr76]

Didn't Peter, Paul and others teach others and share words they had written? I enjoy reading commentaries and other books as well. Yes, Scripture takes precedence, but I would be very arrogant to say that I can't learn from another man. As the eunuch told Phillip, how can I understand unless some man teach me. Yes, the Holy Spirit teaches and gives guidance, but men can also be used as instruments of God to teach others.

Now, whether the financial gain is the motive or not, I cannot say. Do I believe this truly happened to this man? No, personally I don't. However, if it reaches a lost soul and they begin to seek out a Savior, more power to him for helping build the Kingdom of God. Jude stated to 'save some with fear', maybe this is what the author is trying to do.

Peter and Paul preached on what they had witnessed not written on a fictional basis

[Wingman]

Wow! You boys have really run off the charts with this one!

About the "ploy to make money" argument. We pay our preacher.

[bohuntr76]

Other than Joel Olstein and Creflo Dollar.......

doubt there are many preachers preaching the TRUE gospel to "make a million bucks"

I feel like as long as whoever reads this book realizes that it is or could be fictional then it could very well be a great way for an unbeliever to be introduced to the Gospel.

As for taking Sunday school books away, etc., they weren't written in a fictional manner. They are written based on scripture. I realize this book makes excellent references to scripture, but due to the sinful, errant nature of man there is no way to tell if the events this man is claiming to have experienced actually occurred.

Also, somebody mentioned the *asterisk in the Apostle's Creed next to Holy Catholic Church.
To address this you have to understand that the Apostle's Creed is the "mission statement," for lack of better terminology, of the reformed Church. Reformed churches adhere to 5 standards for being a church of Christ:

1. Scripture ALONE is the standard for beliefs
2. we are here for the glory of God ALONE
3. By Christ's work ALONE are we saved not ours
4. Salvation by Grace alone
5. Salvation by faith in Christ's work ALONE

And it is not called the Apostles Creed because it was written or authored by the apostles, but because it is actually an excellent brief synopsis of what they taught, and sets forth the Christian gospel in a concise manner, with proper reverential high regard.

And as for the asterisk, it is used to denote that the Apostles creed is not referring to the Roman Catholic church, yet the Holy Catholic church. The word catholic means universal. It is merely a word that the Romans claimed to denote their denomination. Therefore, people today associate the word catholic with the Roman Catholic beliefs which differ greatly from those of traditional or reformed Christians.

The true church of God is the universal or catholic church no matter what label man puts on it by labeling it with a denomination. There is one Holy Universal or Catholic church fulfilling it's commission to to go out as warriors for Christ to all ends of the earth with the gospel. The reformed churches are steeped in tradition and have a high regard for their creed so instead of changing the original wording they would rather denote it with an *asterisk.

The Holy catholic church is one in it's origin as the household of God built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets, with Jesus as the cornerstone. The true marks of this church are allegiance to one Lord, adherence and confession of a common creed, and participation in the sacraments (ie - baptism, communion).

Wingman,

On the "soul sleep" discussion............check out 2 Corinthians 5:6-8 and Philippians 1:21-23

Very deep theology here...over my head really...but for what its worth "soul sleep" as I have learned is an incorrect belief

The verses you mentioned in Daniel are referring to the body not the soul. Upon death, our body and soul separate, and our soul immediately is in union with Christ. Which is the correct scriptural reference of Christ telling the thief on the cross that TODAY you will be with me in paradise. Not when HE comes again, but TODAY when he dies, his body and soul will separate and his soul will be in communion with Christ. And his body will be buried, only to rise again in glorification and perfection to join with the soul when Christ comes again.

That is how I have come to understand the incorrectness of "soul sleep" theology

[Wingman]

Have you read the book, bohunter?

Bunch of folks jumping on the bandwagon here that haven't even read the man's story to see what he said.

And as far as the Bible being the only book we'll ever need, I can't argue with that. But as "iron sharpens iron" it's sometimes uplifting to read what other Christians have experienced, and I think one man can learn from another's walk.

Now y'all may be able to understand everything in the Bible without some help, but I can't. I like to have a little "study" sometimes to open my eyes to what the Scriptures are saying if I'm confused about some of it. That's where reading books and things from other folks helps me.

Is every book and TV preacher out there preaching the truth? Certainly not. But I surely don't see where looking outside the Bible for study is wrong. I suppose if you really wanna split hairs, we should all be reading the original Hebrew manuscripts, not some translations done for the English speaking folks.

[bohuntr76]

Wingman,

I have not and will not be reading 23 mins in Hell. However, I never said that you or anybody should not read this book or wouldn't gain anything spiritually from reading it.

I have over 200 books other than the Bible that I have read and studied in order to better my walk as a Chrisitian, none of which include 23 mins in Hell, or 60 mins in Heaven. If there are any other areas that you would like to know more about I would be glad to see if I have any material on that subject and more than willing to share it with you. And, I certainly am not trying to force any agenda on anybody, simply stating my opinion and beliefs, which you asked for.

I completely agree that "iron sharpens iron", and have consulted with and sought out direction from many men on theological issues I have had trouble understanding. This is a great way to understand scripture that we may be confused about. I am only 33 yrs old and have much more to learn than I could ever imagine.

All that being said, one should not put his faith in this book. And, I am not saying you are telling anyone to, just stating my opinion. As for this guys account matching his scriptural references. I hope you are not naive enough to think that alone proves he went through what he is claiming to have experienced. Through my understanding of scripture and opinion I do not believe that one could die, which has to happen in order to encounter Heaven or Hell according the Bible that I read, then come back to life to tell of his/her encounter. It is certainly your choice and right to believe otherwise.

Let me use a non-biblical example. I could read an indepth, descriptive book on the state of Virginia. Then I could go and write a book about my adventures and travels in Virginia using some of the details, and descriptions that I read in this book and no one would be able to tell if I had really ever been to Virginia or not. Could they learn many interesting and true facts about Virginia? Absolutely.

Again, not to sound like a broken record, but I am not telling anyone not to read this book and I think it is a good thing that in your personal walk and seeking Christ that it has caused you to study scripture more in depth. May your journey be as rewarding as mine has been.

[Wingman]

My faith is not based on this book. Never said it was.

Thank you for your opinion, but now I remember why I stopped posting on "christian" forums years ago.

[bohuntr76]

Out of curiosity why did you?

Looks like you aren't interested in anyone's opinion and I didn't say that you put your faith in this book.

Maybe you misread my post or didn't read it at all.