Church refused entry into county park UPDATE: granted access

[JDgator]

We were told our evangelistic team is not allowed to enter a county park and hand give out free Gatorade/Popsicles. I am really trying hard to keep my anger under control here. I thought I lived in a faith-based community. I feel like the parks & rec department is being lazy and giving a blanket "you can't do that" because it hasn't been done before. But I don't see how they can keep us out if we don't break any laws. Don't know what to do here, but very disappointed because we can't reach out to unchurched families in the community who visit the parks.

[RedEyed Duck]

There is a church in Atoka, TN that promotes the gospel by setting up at a 4 way stop on Hwy. 51 and giving out cups of sweet tea to all passer bys. If folks can sit on a corner and take donations, you should certainly be able to give out water, gatorade and popsicles. Just get the proper permits first, go about it the right way!

[Seymore]

I can sort of understand where they are coming from. I mean I've been hunting with you JDgator so I know. All sorts of alarms probably started going off in their head when you walked in.

[ufgators68]

We were told our evangelistic team is not allowed to enter a county park and hand give out free Gatorade/Popsicles. I am really trying hard to keep my anger under control here. I thought I lived in a faith-based community. I feel like the parks & rec department is being lazy and giving a blanket "you can't do that" because it hasn't been done before. But I don't see how they can keep us out if we don't break any laws. Don't know what to do here, but very disappointed because we can't reach out to unchurched families in the community who visit the parks.

It could be that they understand that people go to the park to relax and spend time with their family... not to be witnessed to.

Just sayin...

[JDgator]

I can sort of understand where they are coming from. I mean I've been hunting with you JDgator so I know. All sorts of alarms probably started going off in their head when you walked in.

no doubt!

They see me coming, they start moving in the other direction.

[the doctor]

hmmm...religious group wanting to give out kool aid

maybe not the best choice, Id proably turn you down too

hate that happened though

the doc

[jdbuckshot]

We were told our evangelistic team is not allowed to enter a county park and hand give out free Gatorade/Popsicles. I am really trying hard to keep my anger under control here. I thought I lived in a faith-based community.

why not just go to the park and witness to them? w

[JDgator]

We don't even want to walk up to people and witness to them. We just want to stand by our coolers and let them know where we are located. We pay to be a sponsor and have our names on the outfields of 3 of the baseball fields. When we were writing that check they gave us the impression everything would be cool, because they let other sponsors run booths and give out products and things. I just want to be able to do the same thing but I can't because I guess they share your concerns that we will hassle people.

[crow]

Being a public,therefore an extension of the county government, park, I can understand the tightrope they have to walk...having dealt with these issues in the schools. There is always someone wanting to take someone to court over this issue, and on both sides of the issue. The one way I would approach them is that you do not want any allowance that is not afforded any other "sponsor." Keep it on the sponsorship level so you avoid the "limited open forum" issues governments have to dance around when it comes to religious access. Be sure to let them know you won't cross over into prosilityzing.

I can understand your frustration, and I can understand their reluctance. Once they open the door to a "religious" agency, thjey must allow access to all. I think the community probably wouldn't want the "Witches and Warlocks of Mississippi" to have booth there handing out pamphlets.

crow

[C-MAN]

It could be that they have an agreement with a group running the concessions not to let anyone else distribute beverages and you would likely cut into their sales during the games. Most of these parks are run this way. Hope everything works out.

[Bonecollecter1111]

my only real problem is that its not a religious ban on gov properties, it is a christian ban!

[gunner]

Once they open the door to a "religious" agency, thjey must allow access to all. I think the community probably wouldn't want the "Witches and Warlocks of Mississippi" to have booth there handing out pamphlets. crow

Crow, I've read many of your posts over the last few years and respect you greatly. Don't take this personal. I realize that you may not even look at it that way. You may even be playing the devil's advocate, but that is the biggest COPOUT ever.

First of all... I rarely ever see any other religious organizations (i.e. Muslims, Hindu's, Buddhist, devil worshipers etc..) out promoting their religion. Not saying it doesn't happen. I'm just saying I rarely ever see them try to beat the doors down to try to convert people. I definitely have seen Jehovah’s Witnesses out there, but I just kindly tell them I'm not interested and they leave me alone. It doesn’t ruin my day or anything. Then again.. I’m a grown man and can handle such encounters. It doesn’t ruin my relaxation and day out with the family.

Second of all... It's just as much their right to be out there as it is our right. Let them come out and try. Witches and Warlocks won't bother me as long as they get the point to leave me alone if they approach me.

The bottom line is it shouldn't be a big deal as long as we're not forcing our point onto people. There shouldn't be any problem with having a booth for people to come to you unless it does violate some type of contractual obligation to a vendor. Just my opinion.

I believe there are pro-bono (sp?) / pro Christian groups that can provide you legal help if needed.

[jdbuckshot]

We don't even want to walk up to people and witness to them. We just want to stand by our coolers and let them know where we are located.

I thought this was an evangalism team?

[crow]

Gunner, I know what you're talking about. It frustrates the daylights out of me when public officials, whether it is school-based, parks and rec, or higher, that just say "we can't" rather than find a way to make it work. It can work, you just can't be stupid and you have to maintain contol...and that equates to work. There is the real problem. Most folks would rather suck the snot out of a dog's nose than spend one more ounce of energy, phyical, mental or creative, than is absolutely necesary to get something worthwhile done.

You can have Bible study in public schools, you can have Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts recruit in public schools, you can have youth ministers visit their kids at lunch in public schools...and you can have religious groups have a presence in a public park. It just takes some thinking, planning, and sometimes courage, to get it done. I'm just saying, in a lack of these characteristics in the public emplyees, you may have to provide the requisite skills for them. Make it easy for them to say "yes." You can get mad and get nothing done or you can get creative and maybe get where you want to be. It shouldn't be that hard, I know. But, in my experience, anything worthwhile rarely comes cheaply or easily.

crow

[JDgator]

This story ends well!!!

I had all but given up hope on getting out to the county's parks and sports complex. Then out of the blue, the Rec director called me today and told me she could swing it after all. All we need to do is creatively fill out some paperwork and stick to certain guidelines, and we will be good. She convinced the commissioners that the county needs another snack vendor. We will be "snack vendors" that sell Popsicles and Gatorade for free.

So thanks for all the nice thoughts and suggestions, folks.