ADS: Knife Sharpning
Re: ADS: Knife Sharpning
Which one you got JD?
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jdbuckshot
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Re: ADS: Knife Sharpning
quacker11 wrote:Which one you got JD?
http://www.grizzly.com/products/8-Razor ... stem/G5937
Every blade I have will now shave hair!
I love this thing. Great for broadhead blades
"The rich ..... who are content to buy what they have not the desire to get by their own exertions, These are the real enemies of Game."
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greenheadgrimreaper
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Re: ADS: Knife Sharpning
I dulled many a blade on a stone before I learned to use it. You can read all the "how-to" articles you want on sharpening on a stone, but until you meet knife with stone, you will not do it well.
With that being said, grandpa also used to take a dump in the outhouse on a cold January night- doesn't mean I have to, nor does it mean it is the best and most effecient way to send a special delivery to the septic tank. There are too many sharpening systems and methods out there to settle for just a stone. And you'd be blue in the face before you made me believe that 99.999% of the folks who use a stone only can or will sharpen a knife sharper than my Lansky. I can't, and I consider myself fairly well-versed on a stone. Now, if you are religious about coming in and hitting your knife a few times on a stone everyday when you are resting your bones beside the fire- then a stone will work just as efficiently. But I am not. Without question, if you go chopping on trees and such all weekend camping with a U.S. made Kabar, a stone is going to take awhile to reestablish and hone an edge to scary. But scary sharp is a horrible choice for a knife with the aforementioned duties anyway. My pocket knife may go weeks without a sharpening. This is after it has been used for everything from prying nails out of a tire to cutting up cardboard for rifle shooting. And like I told a buddy who refused to use his pocket knife to take a small screw out of a predator call to change the batteries: if your pocket knife is too valuable to be used for what a pocket knife is supposed to be used for (everything) then it is of no use in my opinion. But that is a topic for another day. I digress, however, because I am constantly surprised by other human beings' skills over others in certain areas. Sharpening a beat up edge on a stone as quickly and efficiently as a sharpening system is certainly not out of the realm of possible.
I got borderline obsessed with this (knife sharpeners) after cutting my fingers constantly with dull knives. A good outdoorsman will always have sharp knives, something to start a fire with and a length of rope. Since I got serious about number 1, I have seen why the old adage "a dull knife is far more dangerous than a sharp one" is true, to a certain extent.
In any case, the keys to a Lansky or any quality system like it start with, as another guy said, to clean the stone with a soft bristle brush in warm water after every cleaning. But that should be standard procedure anyway. The second is to throw away the ultra fine stone, it is of no use for most of the folks on this boards applications. I do use it on my kitchen knives. Ask any knife maker and he will tell you that other than the finest of cutlery items, a utility knife can benefit from the microscopic abrasions left in it from coarser stones to hold an edge longer. Just try it: sharpen your knife and stop with a medium and see if that medium edge holds longer while cleaning a deer than the extra fine or even fine stone will hold its fine edge. A fine edge doesn't regress to a medium and a medium to a coarse- it regresses to dull. The second key to a Lansky- and the MOST important- is to be adamant about the straightness of the rod. It must be almost if not perfectly flat and in line with the stone. Make sure the surface you are checking it on is flat and doesn't look flat. Only go in one direction towards the point of the knife. SLOW and STEADY and light EVEN pressure. If you go quick, you will make bad strokes that are just as damaging to your progress as one on a stone. The Lansky type systems are not fool-proof. But even fools like me can get them to make an edge scream with patience and attention. If you do not take time to clean the gunk off the stone and knife while sharpening it will never get sharp as it could. I don't count sides, but I do make the switch as soon as the edge evens up. Then the burr forms and I spray rem-oil or either that purple power cleaner/degreaser on a leather strop, and lightly- yet with some pressure- SLOWLY and evenly pull AWAY from the edge toward the spine at a shallow angle. 3 or 4 times at the most on each side. Stropping will dull a blade out just as quick as a stone.
The reason it is so easy to dull a blade in all stages of sharpening and not while cleaning a deer's hide is because you are working with the angles on the knife while sharpening, but usually you are not when cutting. Reasoning would tell you that when you are working a knife down a deer's hide (with all else being equal like blade type, bevel angle and metal etc) that the movements that are made at near the same angles of the edge's angle of bevel will have more of an adverse effect on the sharpness. But those are few and far in between as far as the number of strokes that knife's edge will make in a given period. So to haphazardly strop a knife because it is just lubricated leather that removes the burr, is a sure-fire way to go from "dammit boy" to "what the...". In a sense, anytime you are playing with matches (the sharpening process) around a fire (the angle of the edge) then you can easily get burned (undo several minutes of work) no matter what system it is. For anyone who is sharpening a knife, if they are wondering why they can't get from "sharp" to "oh my damn I'm bleeding", it is probably because they have failed to recognize how important removing that burr is in order to get a true apex point. No matter how you do it: cardboard, strop, steel, ceramic, removing the burr is the most crucial point to looking forward to using a knife instead of dreading it and being ashamed while saying the old one liner to a fellow who needs to borrow it, " I ain't sharpened it now, so watch it." But hell, anyone other than a woman or child who is asking to borrow a knife ought not to complain anyway.
If you want a truly sharp edge that holds forever, put a double bevel on it. In any case, shallow angles equal razor sharp, but quick loss of edge. My filet knives are 15 degrees, but I usually do them on a stone as well as my smaller folding knives. My Case stainless fixed blade has a 25 degree double bevel- I bought it the first hunting season after my dad died. After stopping one day from hacking on a limb to stuff in a blind, I noticed the old boy had gotten some age to him. It's only purpose now is to clean wild game or possibly some kitchen work. I get it and all my other knives screaming with my Lansky, except my Kabar. I never go past medium on it at a 30 degree angle. Reasons being, the coarser stone makes the knife's edge be an almost glorified saw. Also, the blade is high carbon steel. There are two types of sharp: all other metal types sharp and high carbon sharp. High carbon steel will get on anotha' level. I have sliced open my finger before lightly checking a high carbon blade. But the tradeoff is it is brittle and it dulls much faster than a stainless blade and obviously it can rust. The coarse finish and steep angle make my Kabar hold an edge for a weekend camping trip and beyond. I carry a small stone with me in my pack if I need to touch it up sitting by the fire.
I ain't saying this all is the right way, but it is my way. And it works for me to get scary sharp or nice and barely shaving- depending on the knife's application. And remember how I said there is high carbon sharp? Also how I usually sharpen a filet on a stone? And about how a sharp knife is safer- to a certain extent? Well, the following pic is what happens when you get: 1) high carbon filet knife 2) Lansky knife sharpener at a low angle 3) A burr-free edge 4) TOO sharp- to the point where there is zero room for error 5) Beer 6) Teal breast prosciutto that needs to be shaved thin and is tuff as leather and the size of glorified raisins 7) Texas A&M beating Old Miss in the last few seconds
Natural selection or destiny? By all indications the scary sharp knife did keep me from having to go get stitches. It just went on ahead and lopped it off for me. I will never have a knife that is meant to be used that sharp again. I literally looked away for one second and the next minute my finger was gone on one side. So screaming sharp ain't always the best choice. One doesn't taste the true aroma of reality quite like picking up his finger tip and throwing it in the garbage can next to the empty Timber Beast beers and onion peels from the gumbo.. Now ya can just call me ol' four n three quarter:
Thanks Lansky!
With that being said, grandpa also used to take a dump in the outhouse on a cold January night- doesn't mean I have to, nor does it mean it is the best and most effecient way to send a special delivery to the septic tank. There are too many sharpening systems and methods out there to settle for just a stone. And you'd be blue in the face before you made me believe that 99.999% of the folks who use a stone only can or will sharpen a knife sharper than my Lansky. I can't, and I consider myself fairly well-versed on a stone. Now, if you are religious about coming in and hitting your knife a few times on a stone everyday when you are resting your bones beside the fire- then a stone will work just as efficiently. But I am not. Without question, if you go chopping on trees and such all weekend camping with a U.S. made Kabar, a stone is going to take awhile to reestablish and hone an edge to scary. But scary sharp is a horrible choice for a knife with the aforementioned duties anyway. My pocket knife may go weeks without a sharpening. This is after it has been used for everything from prying nails out of a tire to cutting up cardboard for rifle shooting. And like I told a buddy who refused to use his pocket knife to take a small screw out of a predator call to change the batteries: if your pocket knife is too valuable to be used for what a pocket knife is supposed to be used for (everything) then it is of no use in my opinion. But that is a topic for another day. I digress, however, because I am constantly surprised by other human beings' skills over others in certain areas. Sharpening a beat up edge on a stone as quickly and efficiently as a sharpening system is certainly not out of the realm of possible.
I got borderline obsessed with this (knife sharpeners) after cutting my fingers constantly with dull knives. A good outdoorsman will always have sharp knives, something to start a fire with and a length of rope. Since I got serious about number 1, I have seen why the old adage "a dull knife is far more dangerous than a sharp one" is true, to a certain extent.
In any case, the keys to a Lansky or any quality system like it start with, as another guy said, to clean the stone with a soft bristle brush in warm water after every cleaning. But that should be standard procedure anyway. The second is to throw away the ultra fine stone, it is of no use for most of the folks on this boards applications. I do use it on my kitchen knives. Ask any knife maker and he will tell you that other than the finest of cutlery items, a utility knife can benefit from the microscopic abrasions left in it from coarser stones to hold an edge longer. Just try it: sharpen your knife and stop with a medium and see if that medium edge holds longer while cleaning a deer than the extra fine or even fine stone will hold its fine edge. A fine edge doesn't regress to a medium and a medium to a coarse- it regresses to dull. The second key to a Lansky- and the MOST important- is to be adamant about the straightness of the rod. It must be almost if not perfectly flat and in line with the stone. Make sure the surface you are checking it on is flat and doesn't look flat. Only go in one direction towards the point of the knife. SLOW and STEADY and light EVEN pressure. If you go quick, you will make bad strokes that are just as damaging to your progress as one on a stone. The Lansky type systems are not fool-proof. But even fools like me can get them to make an edge scream with patience and attention. If you do not take time to clean the gunk off the stone and knife while sharpening it will never get sharp as it could. I don't count sides, but I do make the switch as soon as the edge evens up. Then the burr forms and I spray rem-oil or either that purple power cleaner/degreaser on a leather strop, and lightly- yet with some pressure- SLOWLY and evenly pull AWAY from the edge toward the spine at a shallow angle. 3 or 4 times at the most on each side. Stropping will dull a blade out just as quick as a stone.
The reason it is so easy to dull a blade in all stages of sharpening and not while cleaning a deer's hide is because you are working with the angles on the knife while sharpening, but usually you are not when cutting. Reasoning would tell you that when you are working a knife down a deer's hide (with all else being equal like blade type, bevel angle and metal etc) that the movements that are made at near the same angles of the edge's angle of bevel will have more of an adverse effect on the sharpness. But those are few and far in between as far as the number of strokes that knife's edge will make in a given period. So to haphazardly strop a knife because it is just lubricated leather that removes the burr, is a sure-fire way to go from "dammit boy" to "what the...". In a sense, anytime you are playing with matches (the sharpening process) around a fire (the angle of the edge) then you can easily get burned (undo several minutes of work) no matter what system it is. For anyone who is sharpening a knife, if they are wondering why they can't get from "sharp" to "oh my damn I'm bleeding", it is probably because they have failed to recognize how important removing that burr is in order to get a true apex point. No matter how you do it: cardboard, strop, steel, ceramic, removing the burr is the most crucial point to looking forward to using a knife instead of dreading it and being ashamed while saying the old one liner to a fellow who needs to borrow it, " I ain't sharpened it now, so watch it." But hell, anyone other than a woman or child who is asking to borrow a knife ought not to complain anyway.
If you want a truly sharp edge that holds forever, put a double bevel on it. In any case, shallow angles equal razor sharp, but quick loss of edge. My filet knives are 15 degrees, but I usually do them on a stone as well as my smaller folding knives. My Case stainless fixed blade has a 25 degree double bevel- I bought it the first hunting season after my dad died. After stopping one day from hacking on a limb to stuff in a blind, I noticed the old boy had gotten some age to him. It's only purpose now is to clean wild game or possibly some kitchen work. I get it and all my other knives screaming with my Lansky, except my Kabar. I never go past medium on it at a 30 degree angle. Reasons being, the coarser stone makes the knife's edge be an almost glorified saw. Also, the blade is high carbon steel. There are two types of sharp: all other metal types sharp and high carbon sharp. High carbon steel will get on anotha' level. I have sliced open my finger before lightly checking a high carbon blade. But the tradeoff is it is brittle and it dulls much faster than a stainless blade and obviously it can rust. The coarse finish and steep angle make my Kabar hold an edge for a weekend camping trip and beyond. I carry a small stone with me in my pack if I need to touch it up sitting by the fire.
I ain't saying this all is the right way, but it is my way. And it works for me to get scary sharp or nice and barely shaving- depending on the knife's application. And remember how I said there is high carbon sharp? Also how I usually sharpen a filet on a stone? And about how a sharp knife is safer- to a certain extent? Well, the following pic is what happens when you get: 1) high carbon filet knife 2) Lansky knife sharpener at a low angle 3) A burr-free edge 4) TOO sharp- to the point where there is zero room for error 5) Beer 6) Teal breast prosciutto that needs to be shaved thin and is tuff as leather and the size of glorified raisins 7) Texas A&M beating Old Miss in the last few seconds
Natural selection or destiny? By all indications the scary sharp knife did keep me from having to go get stitches. It just went on ahead and lopped it off for me. I will never have a knife that is meant to be used that sharp again. I literally looked away for one second and the next minute my finger was gone on one side. So screaming sharp ain't always the best choice. One doesn't taste the true aroma of reality quite like picking up his finger tip and throwing it in the garbage can next to the empty Timber Beast beers and onion peels from the gumbo.. Now ya can just call me ol' four n three quarter:Thanks Lansky!
"The middle of the road is where the white line is -- and that's the worst place to drive." Robert Frost
http://www.pintailduckboats.com/
http://www.pintailduckboats.com/
Re: ADS: Knife Sharpning
Is that a grad school thesis or a comment on this topic? Greenhead you wordsmith you.
ISAIAH 40:31
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
― Franklin D. Roosevelt
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
― Franklin D. Roosevelt
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greenheadgrimreaper
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Re: ADS: Knife Sharpning
Haha hey I get a little carried away on subjects I am passionate about. Especially ones that can mean the difference between a nasty gaping wound or a nice, pretty and complete amputation. It's only because I care.
"The middle of the road is where the white line is -- and that's the worst place to drive." Robert Frost
http://www.pintailduckboats.com/
http://www.pintailduckboats.com/
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jdbuckshot
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- Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 12:37 pm
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Re: ADS: Knife Sharpning
i've got the lanksey also, it is a good system.
but after cleaning all the stones, running the different grits, and putting on and taking off the burr several times, it takes a good bit of time to sharpen a knife.
with the paper wheels, i can sharpend a butter knife to shaving sharp in less than 2 min.
but after cleaning all the stones, running the different grits, and putting on and taking off the burr several times, it takes a good bit of time to sharpen a knife.
with the paper wheels, i can sharpend a butter knife to shaving sharp in less than 2 min.
"The rich ..... who are content to buy what they have not the desire to get by their own exertions, These are the real enemies of Game."
Re: ADS: Knife Sharpning
+1Wingman wrote:
Lansky systems are cumbersome P.O.S's that take forever to use. I be damned if im gonna ask someone else to sharpen my knives much less pay them to do it. Just get a regular stone and practice. Once you learn to be consistant with your angle you will be good to go. Once the edge is set i can take a knife from dull back to razor sharp in a matter of minutes. Also i like to polish the edge on a piece of leather once i have sharpened it.
Only Those Born & Raised in Nort East Mississippi Will Know Exactly What i MeanTo Those Set Adrift Amidst BrokeDick Rednecks,Radical Pentecostalism,Moonshine Bootleggers and PusserMania,There are Two Kings to Choose From-Elvis or Jesus.
-Jimbo Mathus
-Jimbo Mathus
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swamprooter
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Re: ADS: Knife Sharpning
It all starts with producing a burr on one side then flipping it so it flakes off to produce a razor sharp edge. I use to cut meat in a Sunflower Store. If you are going to buy any gadget , buy a paper / grit combo wheel.. better yet buy the system Bass Pro uses. they buy their wheels from a lady in Springfield . Ask behind the counter for info...oh yeah. It helps if you have good steel too.
Just pulled up the Grizzly system JD Buckshot suggested and is identical to the one i use and Bass Pro.....highly reccomend it
Just pulled up the Grizzly system JD Buckshot suggested and is identical to the one i use and Bass Pro.....highly reccomend it
Last edited by swamprooter on Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
"i aint a mindreader, i am just an elf" Silas Robertson
Re: ADS: Knife Sharpning
Well after all the research I found the paper wheel kit here in Jackson for $50. I bought them yesterday and installed them. Its the real deal. fast, sharp and east. best $50 bucks I ever spent. Doing the all the kitchen knives tonight.
Re: ADS: Knife Sharpning
http://www.amazon.com/Charlies-Wheel-Sl ... m_sbs_hi_1
33.33 free shipping. I may have to buy a set just to see what's up if it does saves a little time.
33.33 free shipping. I may have to buy a set just to see what's up if it does saves a little time.
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Re: ADS: Knife Sharpning
what did you do with the little piece of finger laying on the cutting board?greenheadgrimreaper wrote:Haha hey I get a little carried away on subjects I am passionate about. Especially ones that can mean the difference between a nasty gaping wound or a nice, pretty and complete amputation. It's only because I care.
Did you keep it? I think I would have wanted to keep it....
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greenheadgrimreaper
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Re: ADS: Knife Sharpning
Field, I threw it away, with the onions and beer bottles. Felt like I lost a little piece of me when the familiar thump of an object hitting a trash can reached my ears.
To the other guy, you know what you're right- lanskys are pos that don't work. Redefining an edge that has been bent and deformed by hacking on stuff in camp all week is much easier to do on grandpa's stone. Much less cumbersome. A lansky type system is actually not a sharpening system per se like a stone. It is best suited as a restoration to damaged edges. A perfectly triple beveled edge on a painter's tool from Sherwin Williams will hold a shaving edge 10x as long as a standard or even double bevelededges on most all "high end" production blades. A lansky type system restores, a stone is better suited to redefine an aging edge.
To the other guy, you know what you're right- lanskys are pos that don't work. Redefining an edge that has been bent and deformed by hacking on stuff in camp all week is much easier to do on grandpa's stone. Much less cumbersome. A lansky type system is actually not a sharpening system per se like a stone. It is best suited as a restoration to damaged edges. A perfectly triple beveled edge on a painter's tool from Sherwin Williams will hold a shaving edge 10x as long as a standard or even double bevelededges on most all "high end" production blades. A lansky type system restores, a stone is better suited to redefine an aging edge.
"The middle of the road is where the white line is -- and that's the worst place to drive." Robert Frost
http://www.pintailduckboats.com/
http://www.pintailduckboats.com/
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