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mfalkner wrote:Praying we never see it...

Amen

99% won't go along with breaking their oath to uphold the constitution first then follow orders second.

I used to believe that...I have read some disturbing things relative to that position though and I think you would be very sadly mistaken.

I think >50% of the military personnel total would stay and carry out the orders. I say this for a few reasons: (1) They would be jailed if they did not and prosecuted; (2) the military is their job and their way of putting food on the table...never under estimate that simple premise..."I like you, but I love me [and my family] more"; (3) with drone technology, it would not take a lot of military personnel to pretty much control the entire country and areas of resistance; (4) the US military is not an all conservative group...roughly 40% supported Obama of those that voted (supposedly)...they would support him if he forcefully took guns as well I would be willing to bet.

Saying all of that, if there was resistance, it would be quickly and violently squashed and send a message to the masses. I know it is cool to imagine yourself fighting off a tyrannical government with your RRA AR-15 with the Eotech on the top...but that is simply not a reality in my opinion. Common sense wins out. Particularly for the fathers on the board that support a wife and kids, it is hard to provide support when you are in a pine box.

kb7722 wrote:

mfalkner wrote:... Our military is more than capable of disarming 99.9% of the population without breaking a sweat. If they go along with it......

Are you sure? Someone was stating statistics that the number of armed citizens was far greater than the number of armed military and law enforcement officers in US. And as you said, will the military and LEO go along with orders to disregard the constitution. I have not verified the numbers myself so I will not state them, but I was surprised and will look into it further.

A predator drone, an MIA1 Abrams tank and/or an F/A-18 Super Hornet can deal with a bunch of 30-30s and 12 gauges with a swiftness.

I think you are pesimistic and underestimate the American peoples desire to not have their guns taken away. Hope we don't see a war within ourselves, but the sheer numbers of gun owners in the country give us a hell of a chance against the gov/military. Plus, I think alot more of the LEO's and military will take the side of the American People and protect teh Constitution than you think.

Deltamud77 wrote:

kb7722 wrote:

mfalkner wrote:... Our military is more than capable of disarming 99.9% of the population without breaking a sweat. If they go along with it......

Are you sure? Someone was stating statistics that the number of armed citizens was far greater than the number of armed military and law enforcement officers in US. And as you said, will the military and LEO go along with orders to disregard the constitution. I have not verified the numbers myself so I will not state them, but I was surprised and will look into it further.

A predator drone, an MIA1 Abrams tank and/or an F/A-18 Super Hornet can deal with a bunch of 30-30s and 12 gauges with a swiftness.

I don't think every gun owner will congregate. In an area and allow themselves to be taken out by an air strike. I think it's more if they start coming home to home askin for guns.

420 racin wrote:I think you are pesimistic and underestimate the American peoples desire to not have their guns taken away. Hope we don't see a war within ourselves, but the sheer numbers of gun owners in the country give us a hell of a chance against the gov/military. Plus, I think alot more of the LEO's and military will take the side of the American People and protect teh Constitution than you think.

Oh, I hope I am wrong if that ever happened. However, realistically speaking, the military (even in a drastically reduced form) is far too powerful and the will of the people is far to weak, to be sustainable against the will of the government.

Look at history.

Germany for hundreds of years has been one of the most sophisticated societies on earth. The Gestapo was not drafted. They volunteered. The same is the case in Russia when the communist took over. In both cases, it took an outside military force (the US) stronger than their own to change the governments (through force and threats of force) and free the people. Russians are still not really free and Germans are still unarmed.

It is one thing to stock up on ammo and weapons. It is a whole different animal to put them to use against a force greater than you which, in all likelihood, is far more capable of tactical use of a weapon than you are. Don't forget, our military is more capable of urban warfare right now than every before. There is hardly a person in the Marines or the Army that have not taken direct part in it if they have been in the military at any time in the last 12 years.

I am not trying to poopoo the resistance, I am just being realistic.

There was a study poll done not long ago. The poll took the number of citizens from three of the least densely populated states in the mid west. The study proved that if every gun owning citizen in these 3 states were to band together, they would be the largest armed fighting force in the world. Now put that study in the south. More densely populated, and greater number of armed citizens. I don't think Barry is dumb enough not to understand the odds.

I think it's more if they start coming home to home askin for guns.

Okay. Say the FBI HRT comes to your neighborhood going door to door demanding your guns and to search your house. If you knwo about HRT, you know they are as highly trained as any tactical team this side of Navy DEVGRU or Delta Force. To that point, many are former members of those teams. They will have snipers, they will have assaulters, etc. They will have drone surveillance, they will have armored personnel vehicles, etc.

If you resist, they arrest you and do what they want in search of your guns. The FEDGOV then seizes all of your assets (which they can now do without trial under an Obama Ex. Order). If you fight, they kill you and likely your family too.

Obviously, there are not a lot of HRT operators, but the FBI has SWAT Teams in every district in which they have offices. These guys have similar capabilities.

I am not saying the government would do it with ease (that depends on how far they want to push things), but they could do it and there is really little the populace could do to stop it IMHO.

The resistance is not realistic. Can I shoot an intruder that tries to break into my home? Absolutely. Can I, while attempting to preserve my gun rights, shoot a man with a U.S. flag patch on his arm? A man who is likely a father, and who may agree with my views-but as someone said earlier, loves himself more than he likes me? Not likely. I don't think it will get that far-and I think whatever Obama and Biden try to do can get tied up until they are out of office. The Executive Order thing will not fly.

quack_a_tack wrote:There was a study poll done not long ago. The poll took the number of citizens from three of the least densely populated states in the mid west. The study proved that if every gun owning citizen in these 3 states were to band together, they would be the largest armed fighting force in the world. Now put that study in the south. More densely populated, and greater number of armed citizens. I don't think Barry is dumb enough not to understand the odds.

I wonder how many apache helicopters and fighter jets those folks have?

People also forget they could eliminate your ability to travel except by foot to a large extent using drones, helicopters, etc. They could and would shut down travel on all major road systems and make traveling any other road so risky that it would not be worth it to try.

Here is another ancillary issue if by some chance Obama were to order confiscation...I mentioned the Gestapo earlier in the thread...who here thinks that many of the unemployed African Americans and liberal whites that voted for Obama at a rate of over 90% would not join an armed civilian force (which Obama has mentioned before) to assist in the confiscation efforts? I could easily see like minded people forming a civilian force at the control of the federal government...just like what Hitler had.

Deltamud77 wrote:

I think it's more if they start coming home to home askin for guns.

Okay. Say the FBI HRT comes to your neighborhood going door to door demanding your guns and to search your house. If you knwo about HRT, you know they are as highly trained as any tactical team this side of Navy DEVGRU or Delta Force. To that point, many are former members of those teams. They will have snipers, they will have assaulters, etc. They will have drone surveillance, they will have armored personnel vehicles, etc.

If you resist, they arrest you and do what they want in search of your guns. The FEDGOV then seizes all of your assets (which they can now do without trial under an Obama Ex. Order). If you fight, they kill you and likely your family too.

Obviously, there are not a lot of HRT operators, but the FBI has SWAT Teams in every district in which they have offices. These guys have similar capabilities.

I am not saying the government would do it with ease (that depends on how far they want to push things), but they could do it and there is really little the populace could do to stop it IMHO.

Understandably I don't plan on shooting any police or military. Nor do I think I would Stan a chance against a special team. But I also don't think they would go home to home of the millions of homes of gun owners.

But I also don't think they would go home to home of the millions of homes of gun owners.

That is part of the point though. All it takes is doing it consistently with showings of force and seizing of assets and arrests with orders to the populace via a complicit media to voluntarily turn in your weapons for 90%+ of the populace to comply.

Obama already has an EO on the books that allows him to indefinitely detain you without trial and seize your assets. If they start exercising that alone, people will be falling over themselves to turn in weapons in most cases.

This is not a case of first impression. It has happened repeatedly throughout history.

Deltamud77 wrote:

420 racin wrote:I think you are pesimistic and underestimate the American peoples desire to not have their guns taken away. Hope we don't see a war within ourselves, but the sheer numbers of gun owners in the country give us a hell of a chance against the gov/military. Plus, I think alot more of the LEO's and military will take the side of the American People and protect teh Constitution than you think.

Oh, I hope I am wrong if that ever happened. However, realistically speaking, the military (even in a drastically reduced form) is far too powerful and the will of the people is far to weak, to be sustainable against the will of the government.

Look at history.

Germany for hundreds of years has been one of the most sophisticated societies on earth. The Gestapo was not drafted. They volunteered. The same is the case in Russia when the communist took over. In both cases, it took an outside military force (the US) stronger than their own to change the governments (through force and threats of force) and free the people. Russians are still not really free and Germans are still unarmed.

It is one thing to stock up on ammo and weapons. It is a whole different animal to put them to use against a force greater than you which, in all likelihood, is far more capable of tactical use of a weapon than you are. Don't forget, our military is more capable of urban warfare right now than every before. There is hardly a person in the Marines or the Army that have not taken direct part in it if they have been in the military at any time in the last 12 years.

I am not trying to poopoo the resistance, I am just being realistic.

Your kidding right?

Our military is composed of very few "real" fighting forces those forces have been and continue to be deployed over and over and over and over again. Why do you think the same personeel in the sam MOS's have been deployed 4, 5 , 6 times. The truth is most of our forces are logistical that cant hit a man sizes target at 100 meters to save their lives. That is a fact,JACK!

I know, i was put in many firing positions right beside the DA girl from,_________. That I had to shoot 20 targets for so she could get her 28 and make marksman.

Deltamud77 wrote:

I think it's more if they start coming home to home askin for guns.

Okay. Say the FBI HRT comes to your neighborhood going door to door demanding your guns and to search your house. If you knwo about HRT, you know they are as highly trained as any tactical team this side of Navy DEVGRU or Delta Force. To that point, many are former members of those teams. They will have snipers, they will have assaulters, etc. They will have drone surveillance, they will have armored personnel vehicles, etc.

If you resist, they arrest you and do what they want in search of your guns. The FEDGOV then seizes all of your assets (which they can now do without trial under an Obama Ex. Order). If you fight, they kill you and likely your family too.

Obviously, there are not a lot of HRT operators, but the FBI has SWAT Teams in every district in which they have offices. These guys have similar capabilities.

I am not saying the government would do it with ease (that depends on how far they want to push things), but they could do it and there is really little the populace could do to stop it IMHO.

So while those 25 guys start raiding houses in 1 neighborhood what are the other 2000 people in that same hood doing? Hiding under a rock? NOT going to happen!