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woundedduck wrote:doesnt have an effect on humans

Yes, it does. Most pods use the same or similar thing that they use to put dogs to sleep. It will kill you dead as a doornail, it just has to get into your system in a large enough quantity. Getting it in a little cut on a finger won't kill you, but if it gets in one of your big arteries you'll be dead in 10 minutes.

I don't post much but I have an opinion about this topic I felt I should share. I spend 100s of hours a year preparing to take one shot. (Were I hunt I only get one buck) And unlike Brad I have been fortunate enough to connect and make nearly perfect shots. I have never felt the need to use a pod as an adult hunter.
Now having said that I will tell that I love bowhunting as much as Brad loves his hair. I spend large majority of my free time preparing because of the wonderful experiences I had starting from when I was 12 years old shooting a 35# junior bow. I can thank my father for introducing me at an early age. My father felt that a pod was the only ethical way to allow me to hunt with that equipment. He felt without it I would be inclined to wound more animals than not. Even a great shot with that equipment can be non fatal. I took my first 3 deer with a pod. I made good shots but without the pod I would have never been in the tree. I also bet there are some women and elderly men that can't pull 50# anymore and that consider pods as a necessary tool that make hunting still possible.
Do I use no. Do I think they should be outlawed NO. Just like any grown up tool there is a time and place for its use.

Brad no offense I needed some comic relief.

might i ask what is the "poison" that folks place in the pods???

gator

Anectine

ANECTINE (succinylcholine chloride) is an ultra short-acting depolarizing-type, skeletal muscle relaxant. It relaxes muscles during surgery or before investigational procedures.

Succinylcholine causes profound muscle relaxation resulting in respiratory depression to the point of apnea.

hmmm, now i must say, you have peaked my interest....

not so much w/ an ethical debate though.....ethics are like the waxing and waning of ocean tides -- they tend to change in order to meet needs, personal needs.

BUT, i'm curious about the procuring of such a med........succinylcholine is under the jurisdiction of the FDA and as such may not be dispense w/out a prescription/order of a physician for teh direct medical need of the patient..........drug stores do NOT carry this med as there's no medical need for an outpatient physician to write this order. we don't allow it to be kept on the "floor" per the "danger factor".

it's indicated for what we just happened to have almost had to use it for -- i'm talking about 5 minutes ago...........a CODE BLUE in which rapid, ultrashort skeletal muscular paralysis is needed for INTUBATION purposes..........and that's about it's only use if memory serves me correctly.

also, it's use in pediatric patients is discourage per it's adverse effect profile ---------> including but not limited to, circulatory collaspe and cardiac/respiratory paralysis. IMHO, it's side effect profile alone is enough to make me very VERY wary of it's use in the general public.

usual dosing profile is an initial dose of 1-1.5 mg/kg in adults.....a 70 kilo person weighs roughly 154 lbs or roughly the equivalent of a 2-3 year old mississippi buck (i've killed mature does in this range as well). considering you're wanting to use it to "dispatch" of a deer, well i think you can see it's quite possible to get a dose in your system that could very easily cause a human a bunch of problems........

dunno how folks get it, don't care, but i'd sure be wary of talking about it on a public forum.......

gator, who admittedly knows nothing about drugs or their legality, but did sleep on a pharmacology book one time

p.s. an old adage around medical folks is "the only difference in a compound being a medicine vs a poison is the DOSE".........maybe something to think about

gator wrote:hmmm, now i must say, you have peaked my interest....

not so much w/ an ethical debate though.....ethics are like the waxing and waning of ocean tides -- they tend to change in order to meet needs, personal needs.

BUT, i'm curious about the procuring of such a med........succinylcholine is under the jurisdiction of the FDA and as such may not be dispense w/out a prescription/order of a physician for teh direct medical need of the patient..........drug stores do NOT carry this med as there's no medical need for an outpatient physician to write this order. we don't allow it to be kept on the "floor" per the "danger factor".

it's indicated for what we just happened to have almost had to use it for -- i'm talking about 5 minutes ago...........a CODE BLUE in which rapid, ultrashort skeletal muscular paralysis is needed for INTUBATION purposes..........and that's about it's only use if memory serves me correctly.

also, it's use in pediatric patients is discourage per it's adverse effect profile ---------> including but not limited to, circulatory collaspe and cardiac/respiratory paralysis. IMHO, it's side effect profile alone is enough to make me very VERY wary of it's use in the general public.

usual dosing profile is an initial dose of 1-1.5 mg/kg in adults.....a 70 kilo person weighs roughly 154 lbs or roughly the equivalent of a 2-3 year old mississippi buck (i've killed mature does in this range as well). considering you're wanting to use it to "dispatch" of a deer, well i think you can see it's quite possible to get a dose in your system that could very easily cause a human a bunch of problems........

dunno how folks get it, don't care, but i'd sure be wary of talking about it on a public forum.......

gator, who admittedly knows nothing about drugs or their legality, but did sleep on a pharmacology book one time

p.s. an old adage around medical folks is "the only difference in a compound being a medicine vs a poison is the DOSE".........maybe something to think about

So, you can hook me up with some anectine?

Do you guys need me to go get you a towel to cry into? What is the deal with all the low blows about cheaper bows and equipment? It sounds to me like maybe the weekend hunters may be killing good deer, while you guys are on this board crying about it. So, maybe you have a nice bow, or more seat-time in your fancy hang-on stand. Doesn't make you any better than the one that just got his equipment. It just means that you have had an opportunity before them. Get over it guys. Shut up and get in the woods and hunt. And by the way, I am not a fan of poison. (the pods, or the 80's band )

BEER DEAGLE wrote:Do you guys need me to go get you a towel to cry into? What is the deal with all the low blows about cheaper bows and equipment? It sounds to me like maybe the weekend hunters may be killing good deer, while you guys are on this board crying about it. So, maybe you have a nice bow, or more seat-time in your fancy hang-on stand. Doesn't make you any better than the one that just got his equipment. It just means that you have had an opportunity before them. Get over it guys. Shut up and get in the woods and hunt. And by the way, I am not a fan of poison. (the pods, or the 80's band )

It has NOTHING to do with cheaper equipment, it's about the dumbasses that just go get cheap crap and don't take the time and effort that is required to go out there and bowhunt. In my mind, you have the right to hunt and that creates the loophole, but you shouldn't have the right to go out there irresponsible and fling arrows at deer and do much more destruction than real harvesting. And I know people kill deer, but I know alot more in that scenario that shoot multiple deer a year and the run off with a hole in the leg or guts or with an arrow hanging out of em cause some jackleg has no clue how to have his bow tuned and have it flying straight and the right equipment and most of all the knowledge and practice to even be attempting the shot...it's not a right a passage it's a responsibility to the deer your hunting...that's my opinion...

I don't necessarily have a strong opinoin about the PODS, it's just one thought process to countering all the dumbasses out there slinging arrows all over the woods!

It does not have anything to do with cheap or old equipment many deer have been harvested by good hunters with cheap equipment. There are just as many that go out and buy a new matthews and think they can go straight out and hunt with it. Just like a lot of people think bore sighting a gun means you don't have to go shoot it.

camlock wrote:
It has NOTHING to do with cheaper equipment, it's about the dumbasses that just go get cheap crap and don't take the time and effort that is required to go out there and bowhunt. In my mind, you have the right to hunt and that creates the loophole, but you shouldn't have the right to go out there irresponsible and fling arrows at deer and do much more destruction than real harvesting. And I know people kill deer, but I know alot more in that scenario that shoot multiple deer a year and the run off with a hole in the leg or guts or with an arrow hanging out of em cause some jackleg has no clue how to have his bow tuned and have it flying straight and the right equipment and most of all the knowledge and practice to even be attempting the shot...it's not a right a passage it's a responsibility to the deer your hunting...that's my opinion...

I don't necessarily have a strong opinoin about the PODS, it's just one thought process to countering all the dumbasses out there slinging arrows all over the woods!

Camlock, I can tell you are passionate about your bow hunting. Thats great, I can appreciate that part. However, I can tell that somewhere along lifes highway, your opinions have been influenced by others that have an I'm-better-than-you approach to hunting. Not everyone gets the golden childs guide to hunting. Before you thrash the ones who may not realize they're doing anything wrong, try to think how you would feel if someone with more experience called you a dumbass. And for all I know, you may be. Maybe not. I'm sure your devote many hours to perfecting your bow-hunting skills and that is great. But, give the little man a break. If the state of Mississippi grants them a hunting license then they have just as much right to fling arrows as you, good shots or not.

There is no shortage of deer. I don't think bad hunters are going to send the whitetail deer into extinction. That sir, is my opinon.

BEER DEAGLE wrote:

camlock wrote:
It has NOTHING to do with cheaper equipment, it's about the dumbasses that just go get cheap crap and don't take the time and effort that is required to go out there and bowhunt. In my mind, you have the right to hunt and that creates the loophole, but you shouldn't have the right to go out there irresponsible and fling arrows at deer and do much more destruction than real harvesting. And I know people kill deer, but I know alot more in that scenario that shoot multiple deer a year and the run off with a hole in the leg or guts or with an arrow hanging out of em cause some jackleg has no clue how to have his bow tuned and have it flying straight and the right equipment and most of all the knowledge and practice to even be attempting the shot...it's not a right a passage it's a responsibility to the deer your hunting...that's my opinion...


I don't necessarily have a strong opinoin about the PODS, it's just one thought process to countering all the dumbasses out there slinging arrows all over the woods!

Camlock, I can tell you are passionate about your bow hunting. Thats great, I can appreciate that part. However, I can tell that somewhere along lifes highway, your opinions have been influenced by others that have an I'm-better-than-you approach to hunting. Not everyone gets the golden childs guide to hunting. Before you thrash the ones who may not realize they're doing anything wrong, try to think how you would feel if someone with more experience called you a dumbass. And for all I know, you may be. Maybe not. I'm sure your devote many hours to perfecting your bow-hunting skills and that is great. But, give the little man a break. If the state of Mississippi grants them a hunting license then they have just as much right to fling arrows as you, good shots or not.

There is no shortage of deer. I don't think bad hunters are going to send the whitetail deer into extinction. That sir, is my opinon.

And you are fully entitled to that opinion and I respect it fully. But I will stand by my stance, it has nothing to do with better than you attitude about hunting. It has nothing to do with the cost of your equipment, It has everything to do with your attitude and respect for the sports and your responsibility as a hunter. I don't care what the state grants you, you should be respectful and responsible enough not to be negligent with the sport and take it for granted. I am not calling a inexperienced unknowledgable hunter a dumba$$, I am calling fool that cares nothing about the sport and about the animals and just wants to sling arrows till he kills and has no regard for what we all should understand and strive for, I don't care if there is an abundance of deer or not, that is not a free pass for us to feel "no big deal" about wounding, crippling, and not treating them fairly and respectfully in the hunt. This is NOT at all about being a better hunter...it's about being decent and respectful and responsible before you got HUNTING anything with a deadly weapon and the fact is, a bowhunter should be held to a standard in that he/she understands what's going on and prepares accordingly...not that he just hauls a bow and arrow out into the woods...legal or not...that is WRONG and it is TRASHY...and that sir is my opinion...

You are right camlock. Hunting like that is wrong, just like using a spot light, or hunting over bait. But, there are certain things in life that can not be enforced. You do have valid points, but the way you presented your views left me to think you were the better-than-you spokesperson.
Good luck bow hunting.

BEER DEAGLE wrote:You are right camlock. Hunting like that is wrong, just like using a spot light, or hunting over bait. But, there are certain things in life that can not be enforced. You do have valid points, but the way you presented your views left me to think you were the better-than-you spokesperson.
Good luck bow hunting.

I don't wanna be viewed that way, I hate those people. I apologize for sounding that way. However, I do feel like I am better than some people in a way and not because I am a better hunter or I have more knowledge about anything, simply that I have respect, decency, and responsibility for a sport I love and respect...those that don't have that and treat it with disregard for the stupid pleasure of here and now, YES I do feel like I am better than them...I feel lot of folks are better than those hunters...

woundedduck wrote:doesnt have an effect on humans

Thats a good one!!!!! Anectine as Gator has so politely posted is used as a paralyzing agent for intubation. You get a load of that in you and it will cause you to stop breathing and you will die.

Now camlock, I am on your side of this situation! I do use poison and I do so because it is legal and aids in quicker recoveries. Does this mean I shoot at everything if I don't have a good shot?? No. Most of the deer I shoot would expire without the use of anectine but it does aid in recovery in the late afternoon and in this heat where the deer will be no fgood the next day. Crap happens even to the best archer. Have friends that film and hunt at primos and they lose deer and big deer each year and they hunt for a living. Just common sense to me. Kinda like insurance. Don't have to have it till you need it. I feel I owe it to the deer I persue to make quick clean kills and if poison helps and is legal then why not use it. The dee does not die instantly and you still have to trail them, just usually not as far.

Gator I too have never understood how it can be legal to posess anectine but should be illegal to dispense without a docs authorization. Big grey area there and EVERY archery shop has it. Pelehatchie Bay Trading post has itt for petes sake! To each his own and yes there are people that just fling arrows and wound everything and there are people who do the same with a gun. No win situation. I have tried to explain to people I know that can't shoot worth a piss that they should consider using poison but they say there are scared to use it. Like I said some people just don't get it. Oh well, I have bagged 4 with it so far this year and haven't lost one in many years so I will stick with what works.