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and don't be fooled. 16th section land IS NOT public land to hunt. Farmer can lease out hunting rights. we leased some a few years back and had to run of some poachers who claimed they thought it was public land to hunt.

duckbuster330 wrote:After all bids are in you are notified if you are the highest or not. If not you have the option to re bid a higher offer to retain the lease the other bidders only get one chance.

This bothers me. Why not have a 'one chance' bid every three years. Everybody puts a bid in a sealed envelope and the highest bidder wins. This second chance business is a bunch of BS. You'll have more bidders this way and the school system would probably receive more money.

timberjack wrote:

duckbuster330 wrote:After all bids are in you are notified if you are the highest or not. If not you have the option to re bid a higher offer to retain the lease the other bidders only get one chance.

This bothers me. Why not have a 'one chance' bid every three years. Everybody puts a bid in a sealed envelope and the highest bidder wins. This second chance business is a bunch of BS. You'll have more bidders this way and the school system would probably receive more money.

Its not BS....it protects an investment......we got one at camp we have had since I was little.....alot of work was put into the stands and foodplots on that land.....its not fare to go put all that work on a lease just to have it taken away.....

And that is usually the norm on most leases, I know IP and Plum Creek do it ....its called "first right of refusal"

DUCKAHOLIC wrote:

timberjack wrote:

duckbuster330 wrote:After all bids are in you are notified if you are the highest or not. If not you have the option to re bid a higher offer to retain the lease the other bidders only get one chance.

This bothers me. Why not have a 'one chance' bid every three years. Everybody puts a bid in a sealed envelope and the highest bidder wins. This second chance business is a bunch of BS. You'll have more bidders this way and the school system would probably receive more money.

Its not BS....it protects an investment......we got one at camp we have had since I was little.....alot of work was put into the stands and foodplots on that land.....its not fare to go put all that work on a lease just to have it taken away.....

And that is usually the norm on most leases, I know IP and Plum Creek do it ....its called "first right of refusal"

Pretty standard practice and fair..

DUCKAHOLIC wrote:

timberjack wrote:

duckbuster330 wrote:After all bids are in you are notified if you are the highest or not. If not you have the option to re bid a higher offer to retain the lease the other bidders only get one chance.

This bothers me. Why not have a 'one chance' bid every three years. Everybody puts a bid in a sealed envelope and the highest bidder wins. This second chance business is a bunch of BS. You'll have more bidders this way and the school system would probably receive more money.

Its not BS....it protects an investment......we got one at camp we have had since I was little.....alot of work was put into the stands and foodplots on that land.....its not fare to go put all that work on a lease just to have it taken away.....

And that is usually the norm on most leases, I know IP and Plum Creek do it ....its called "first right of refusal"

I agree

I can understand wanting to protect your investment. I can also understand someone else wanting to lease the property. That's why you have the bidding process to begin with. I wouldn't even want to bid on a lease if I knew the existing leaseholder could match or bump my higher bid and anytime you reduce the number of bidders you potentially reduce the amount of the lease itself. The more competition you have for a lease the higher the price will go.

It would suck to have a place leased out from under you after you've spent years developing it. The remedy for that is to bid all you can the first time so it doesn't happen. If you're worried you won't have the high bid then bid a little higher. Makes sense to me..........

peewee wrote:Trick question about school sections that I may add. There are some 16 sections that are more than a mile square. These are old land grants. I know there are some around the river. I believe there is one in Claiborne Co. that encompasses more than 15000 acres near GG.

Oh, it gets wierder than that. Some of the old Section lines by the river were drawn as 'Spanish' Sections. That means that they were originally run parallel to and perpendicular from the river at that point. To make sure that you know what you are looking at, you'll need to see the original surveys that are recorded in the courthouse.

you shoudl always make sure you have the latest deed of record.

If I found two section corners that are exactly 5280.00' from each other I would have to call B/S.

The Meridian that runs through DeSoto Co. and seperates T2/T3 and R7/R8 is not N00-00-00E it has different deviation depending on which section you are in and the last survey recorded.

I can understand wanting to protect your investment. I can also understand someone else wanting to lease the property. That's why you have the bidding process to begin with. I wouldn't even want to bid on a lease if I knew the existing leaseholder could match or bump my higher bid and anytime you reduce the number of bidders you potentially reduce the amount of the lease itself. The more competition you have for a lease the higher the price will go.

It would suck to have a place leased out from under you after you've spent years developing it. The remedy for that is to bid all you can the first time so it doesn't happen. If you're worried you won't have the high bid then bid a little higher. Makes sense to me..........

I totally disagree with you. I think the current lessee should get first right of refusal. It is the fair thing to do.

Also: there is 16th section land here in Madison that neighborhoods are built on. The owners of the homes just pay a lease for the land on top of the property taxes.

There are even a couple of 16th sections in public waterways. That adds to the bickering.

timberjack wrote:I can understand wanting to protect your investment. I can also understand someone else wanting to lease the property. That's why you have the bidding process to begin with. I wouldn't even want to bid on a lease if I knew the existing leaseholder could match or bump my higher bid and anytime you reduce the number of bidders you potentially reduce the amount of the lease itself. The more competition you have for a lease the higher the price will go.

It would suck to have a place leased out from under you after you've spent years developing it. The remedy for that is to bid all you can the first time so it doesn't happen. If you're worried you won't have the high bid then bid a little higher. Makes sense to me..........

I hear ya Daddy Warbucks.........................

No money is being lost by 1st right of refusal. Its a fair practice in my opinion.

DUCKAHOLIC wrote:I hear ya Daddy Warbucks.............

Not really sure what you mean by this?? No need to get personal, we just have a difference in opinion.......

Not sure but I think there are laws that cover the bidding process and the school district has a duty to get the highest bid. A sealed bid would not do this where a right of refusal would.

I just had a Masters student finish his thesis on this subject so I thought I'd add some tidbits to the discussion.

In 2005, 16th section hunting leases averaged about $8.73/acre. This almost $2.00/acre more than hunting leases on nonindustrial private lands. The most likely cause of this difference is the fact that the public lands are leased through a sealed bid auction process while on most private lands, the lease price is negotiated.

In 2005, hunting leases generated over $2.5 million for public education.

There are about 875 hunting leases on 16th section lands. Many sections are broken up into smaller units for hunting lease purposes, thus one section may have more than one lease.

Only land in forestry uses may be leased for hunting. When the land is leased for agricultural purposes, the hunting rights are included.

In lands acquired from the Chickasaw (NE MS), no lands were set aside for public education. Lands acquired from the Choctaws do have 16th sections set aside for public education.

Leases in the north west part of the state received the highest bid prices, followed by the south west. Leases in the east generated the lowest lease revenues. Location within the state was the factor that had the greatest impact on lease prices.

Average Boone and Crocket score for the county as estimated from DMAP data was positively related to lease price. No surprise there, but the effect is relatively small, possibly due to the fact that that average B&C scores are not well known.(Thats my guess anyway).

Ethical issues aside, sealed bid auctions with right of first refusal typically result in lower revenues than sealed bid auctions w/o the right of first refusal - ON AVERAGE (There's always exceptions) This has been proven theoretically and empirically numerous times.

As previously noted, sections are approximately 640 acres; however, this can vary dramatically. Some adjustments are necessary to account for the curvature of the earth. Also, some of the original surveyors were not as accurate as others. Noticeable errors were typical after the surveyors had spent the night in Indian villages - presumaby drinking whatever spirits the Indians had available.


There's some more good stuff in the thesis but you'll have to wait until it comes out in paperback