Interesting read about the raid in Laurel.

[ACEINTHEHOLE]

Howard would face a 7 million dollar fine. I have heard Howard was already struggling and this will probably put them under.

Sorry if I sound like a hard case right now because I'm really a nice guy - I promise - but I have zero sympathy for them on this. 'Immigration Status' and their related issues are very near and dear to my heart. However, Howard Industries should have to pay this fine PLUS they should be forced to return the jobs creation grant they had gotten earlier.

Trust me you, I am totally with you on that.

[timberjack]

What's the solution to the employer's problem? They need guys that'll work. The local blacks don't want to work, plain and simple, the mexicans are mostly illegal and the white folks that are worth a damn are all working somewhere else. So what are companies like Howard supposed to do? They're in a catch22 situation, damned if they do and damned if they don't. I've worked some Mexicans before (dont know if they were legal or not) and I'm here to tell you that they will flat out work. I understand that they are a burden on our social services and they dont pay taxes but I also see the employers side of it. They want to stay in business but it's hard to compete when you've got three overpaid democrats that won't do the work of one mexican.............

[jacksbuddy]

Timberjack, I can see your point. However, in this instance, the union called the law. That tells me that an illegal alien got a job that should've gone to a union worker. And we can say what we will, but union workers can't be 'lazy' for the simple fact that the union needs to be able to prove results at the bargaining table.

[timberjack]

I never said union workers were lazy. I think unions serve a purpose to a point, but I also realize that like most entities with too much power there is abuse. So what is the employer to do? I guess they'll all struggle for awhile until they realize they can't pay union wages and still compete in the marketplace, then they'll go out of business. We can b1tch about illegals all we want but the fact is they want to work in a society of Americans who think they dont need or have to work. Anybody got a good solution for the employer and the worker??

[jacksbuddy]

the fact is they want to work in a society of Americans who think they dont need or have to work. Anybody got a good solution for the employer and the worker??

I totally agree. I'm not acusing you of saying that union workers are lazy. If that came across, I'm sorry.

The best solution that I can come up with is what we 'should' have already - collective bargaining. The worker must understand that the employer needs to make a profit in order to stay in business, therefore, the worker needs to be productive. and the employer needs to understand that the worker needs to be paid a decent wage for his work. If they both realize that they are each in the same boat together, then everybody can hold their head up. Crap like this happens when stupid greed gets involved.

Unfortunately, we are all out of rose colored glasses. But I think that the Obamination is trying to get a new contract for their production.

[cwink]

What's the solution to the employer's problem? They need guys that'll work. The local blacks don't want to work, plain and simple, the mexicans are mostly illegal and the white folks that are worth a damn are all working somewhere else. So what are companies like Howard supposed to do? They're in a catch22 situation, damned if they do and damned if they don't. I've worked some Mexicans before (dont know if they were legal or not) and I'm here to tell you that they will flat out work. I understand that they are a burden on our social services and they dont pay taxes but I also see the employers side of it. They want to stay in business but it's hard to compete when you've got three overpaid democrats that won't do the work of one mexican.............

Timber, some of them do work very hard. But that is not the point they are law breakers.. If we ignore this law, what other laws should we ignore. Sure there might not be an huge issue now. But give it 10 years with there are double or triple the amount of illegals in your area. See if you feel the same way..

By the way.. Did you see yesturday's paper where there was line out the door of people applying for jobs at Howard??

[timberjack]

By the way.. Did you see yesturday's paper where there was line out the door of people applying for jobs at Howard??

I dont doubt that one bit. There are lots of folks out there that want a check. Have either of you guys ever worked people in a manual labor type setting? Have you ever tried to hire some guys for this type work? It's very difficult to find people that will give you an honest days work for good pay.

I think we're gonna see businesses like Howard do one of two things: either move to Mexico or go out of business. I guess all the union folks can go to Mexico and work for $2 a day.

[cwink]

By the way.. Did you see yesturday's paper where there was line out the door of people applying for jobs at Howard??

I dont doubt that one bit. There are lots of folks out there that want a check. Have either of you guys ever worked people in a manual labor type setting? Have you ever tried to hire some guys for this type work? It's very difficult to find people that will give you an honest days work for good pay.

I think we're gonna see businesses like Howard do one of two things: either move to Mexico or go out of business. I guess all the union folks can go to Mexico and work for $2 a day.

Yep, used to load lumber for Sutherlands and other Home Improvement stores also my Dad owned an Auto Repair shop for 35 years and work for/with him.. So I know how hard it is to find good help.

[jacksbuddy]

Have either of you guys ever worked people in a manual labor type setting? Have you ever tried to hire some guys for this type work? It's very difficult to find people that will give you an honest days work for good pay.

Yes I have, and yes it is difficult. However, it is not impossible. Hire a man to do a man's job and pay him a man's wage, and you both win. If you give a man a job, he loses. If you give a man a check, you lose.

[sondance]

I don't know if you remember this but I do. Several years ago about the time of the "BEEF PLANT" Fiasco the state of MS gave Howard Industry a large grant or some sort of tax credit. I do not recall exactly. The point was WE i.e taxpayers were subsidzing Howard in hopes they would expand and provide more jobs. They provided more jobs for people we are already subsidizing. It is freaking amazing they would have the gall... I know someone will go on about the manaul labor, hard work no one wants to do. I call crap on that. There were thousands of people in Simpson County who were trained to do a very similar job when Universal, then Magnetec shut down. Who by the way located to Mexico. The plant is now guess who "Howard Industry" but running at a skeleton staff compared to it's hey day. I know my Mom worked there, my girlfriends mom worked there, most of my friends parents worked there. However, these folks were unionized and expected to get a higher wage than minimum. My point it is Howard Industry is a freaking another BEEF PLANT. They want to hire Mexican's go to Mexico and set up just don't expect me to subsidize you. I am pretty sure hose balast are not even used in the US any more so that is a much more appropriate place for them.

[Duckdawg10]

Several years ago about the time of the "BEEF PLANT" Fiasco the state of MS gave Howard Industry a large grant or some sort of tax credit. I do not recall exactly. The point was WE i.e taxpayers were subsidzing Howard in hopes they would expand and provide more jobs. They provided more jobs for people we are already subsidizing.

That is a hell of a point, and I think this is what is the most frustrating. They are giving our hard earned money to the wrong people. They are subsidizing the Mexicans indirectly and directly. Now days, more of our money goes towards illegals than democrats.