DuckSouth.com

I ve never shot a top shelf varmit semi but I do here they are pretty impressive. Just seems like alot of junk guns to wade through to get to the good ones.

Might want to look at a M1A in a JAE stock.

[quote="cwink"]I am not real familar with AR platforms, but 1 MOA at 100 yards should translates to 5 MOA at 500 Yards which for deer is accaptable, most higher end bolts are probably pushing .75 MOA, but if all ARs are saying 1 MOA then the ammo you use will probably make more difference than the rifle.[/quote]

MOA is MOA at any distance. MOA's and MIL's are both an angular measurement that stays the same regardless of distance, think of them as a triangle where the angle stays the same but as the base gets further away the larger the triangle gets if that makes sense. 1MOA= 1/60th of 1degree, which at 100 yards works out to be 1.047", 1" to make it easy. At 500 yards, 1 MOA is 5.235", 5 MOA at 100 yards is 5.235", 5 MOA at 500 yards is 26.175". You are measuring variation from center and not width. The idea that 1MOA=1" is a pet peeve of mine and one of several reasons I prefer MIL/MIL scopes. Some scope manufactrues have it all jacked up....they'll put a mildot reticle and "MOA" turrets that really track in inches. It won't matter if you're shooting 100 yards, but get out to 500-1000 yards and those stacked tolerences will show up. If you ever get to where you want to use the scope estimate range and make corrections you'd best bring a calculator. MIL/MOA nets you having to do several conversions and work with complicated numbers, MIL/MIL you just need to multiply and divide by 10 and you can read right in the scope what your adjustments need to be.

tennduckdog wrote:

cwink wrote:I am not real familar with AR platforms, but 1 MOA at 100 yards should translates to 5 MOA at 500 Yards which for deer is accaptable, most higher end bolts are probably pushing .75 MOA, but if all ARs are saying 1 MOA then the ammo you use will probably make more difference than the rifle.

MOA is MOA at any distance. MOA's and MIL's are both an angular measurement that stays the same regardless of distance, think of them as a triangle where the angle stays the same but as the base gets further away the larger the triangle gets if that makes sense. 1MOA= 1/60th of 1degree, which at 100 yards works out to be 1.047", 1" to make it easy. At 500 yards, 1 MOA is 5.235", 5 MOA at 100 yards is 5.235", 5 MOA at 500 yards is 26.175". You are measuring variation from center and not width. The idea that 1MOA=1" is a pet peeve of mine and one of several reasons I prefer MIL/MIL scopes. Some scope manufactrues have it all jacked up....they'll put a mildot reticle and "MOA" turrets that really track in inches. It won't matter if you're shooting 100 yards, but get out to 500-1000 yards and those stacked tolerences will show up. If you ever get to where you want to use the scope estimate range and make corrections you'd best bring a calculator. MIL/MOA nets you having to do several conversions and work with complicated numbers, MIL/MIL you just need to multiply and divide by 10 and you can read right in the scope what your adjustments need to be.

Yes, you are correct..I was just trying to say that if the spread is 1" at 100 yards the spread could be expected to be about 5 inches at 500 yards..

i agree it is confusing. the more i research long range shooting the more complicated it seems. missed the largest deer of my life this past year at about 450 yards. this was a combination of 2 things inadequate equipment but mostly an inexperienced shooter at that range. it may happen again but it wont be because my gun cant do it. i shot at him 4 times. the first 3 he just stood there broad side and looked almost like he was laughing the 4 shot hit him right underneath the belly and just grazed some hair off of him. not fair to a deer to wound him because of not being able to make the shot. i have been contemplating getting a custom rifle built but we are talking 2k plus. i have been reading and hearing about the ar platforms and the performance that people are getting out of the box and thought it would be interesting to try one. the gun is only as good as the optics so i am looking at several scopes and have narrowed it down to leupold mark IV, nightforce and burris with the nightforce not being likely as i can get the others for half of what a nightforce cost.

Mil/MOA scopes are beyond ignorant. Mil in general is harder for me. MOA=1" at 100 is more accurate enough. I know that my vital zone on a deer is no more than 10"10" and I can use my MOA to help distance deer. Actually I use a nikon range finder but the MOA is fun to play with


Also you ger what you pay for. You either need good lines on your scope or good turrets.

lipsplitter39654 wrote:i agree it is confusing. the more i research long range shooting the more complicated it seems. missed the largest deer of my life this past year at about 450 yards. this was a combination of 2 things inadequate equipment but mostly an inexperienced shooter at that range. it may happen again but it wont be because my gun cant do it. i shot at him 4 times. the first 3 he just stood there broad side and looked almost like he was laughing the 4 shot hit him right underneath the belly and just grazed some hair off of him. not fair to a deer to wound him because of not being able to make the shot. i have been contemplating getting a custom rifle built but we are talking 2k plus. i have been reading and hearing about the ar platforms and the performance that people are getting out of the box and thought it would be interesting to try one. the gun is only as good as the optics so i am looking at several scopes and have narrowed it down to leupold mark IV, nightforce and burris with the nightforce not being likely as i can get the others for half of what a nightforce cost.

I'm no long range shooter either, but am also very intrigued. And, I'm not even a great shooter, and don't know much as compared to all there is involved in the grand scheme of shooting, but I consider myself good enough for my purposes. And, I like the AR's as well, and would also love to have a custom gun, but you don't have to go to those lengths or expenses to get a good mid to long range hunting rifle. I hunt with a Browning A-bolt 7mag and shoot 139gr Hornadys. I zero at 300 yds which puts me about three inches high at 100, and I forget the exact numbers, but I can basically hold on meat inside 500 and make a killing shot. Off a bench on a calm day I can consistently get 1" groups at 100 yds and only a fraction larger at 300. I took a deer two years ago at 415 yds (my farthest by quite a bit). I was worried the shot was a little sketchy so I left him til the next morning and found him within about 80 yds of where I shot him. I also have video of my dad (who is a far better shooter than I am) dropping a pretty good elk in it's tracks with a shot through the ticker at about 600 yds with the same gun and bullet.

All that just to say that as much as I would like to build a couple high performing long range guns for target shooting, I can't justify spending the money when my hunting set up that came off the shelf at the sporting goods store will do about the same thing.

I have a DPMS Ar-10. I like it, but I think I should have saved my money and gone with Rock River or LWRC. If you get the DPMS go a head and get The Wedge (if they make it for the AR-10). My DPPMS has a little bit of play between the upper and lower receiver. Came like that out of the box

http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/? ... &cat=1526x.

woody that is the type info i need. the rra is rising to the top of my list really quickly. talked with 2 gunsmith buddies that were both former army snipers and are both current swat team guys in law enforcement and they both gave me a list of things that the gun really needs to have and they dont know each other, and the rra has all of the items on the list. the dpms has an 18" model which is a little shorter than i want and a 24" model which is a good bit heavier than i want. i called them and they wont do a different barrell. the rra has a 20" barrel so i think it is going to be the one to go with but I am still researching it. thanks guys

If it's a dedicated long range gun, you shouldn't be considering anything but the 24" bbl.

The guns with 24" barrels and all of the other features that I am looking for all weigh over 10 lbs. which is too heavy. the rra is around 81/2 pounds with the 20" barrell. i am not sure what to do on this and understand what you mean. thanks

well after the research i did i ordered the Rock River Arms LAR 8 predator HP in 308 with 20 " barrell added the tactical ergo deluxe grip and the operator a2 stock. Called several dealers that supposedly carry these guns and got the run around. Finall called Vans, should have called them first but they are not listed on the companys website as a dealer and I totally forgot to check with them. As always in the past, Vans had a can do attitude and had it ordered within 30 minutes of me calling. They matched the best price that I had found. Cant wait to get my hands on it. The build time is 90-120 days which is a good thing as I can save up some extra cash to get the scope I want on it. Thanks for all the feedback on my original post. Hope I made the right decision.

Sounds like a sweet set up. Do you reload? Might want to look at military surplus 7.62 for plinking. Some of it is steel case crap that is dirty. M1a forums .com or some such used to have a link to good sites.
Shootem up.

http://www.rockriverarms.com/popup.cfm? ... 308php.gif

Is that your new rig? Vans also has some pretty good used optics as well.

You'll shoot your eye out with that thing

thats the one i ordered and i added the ergo tactical grip. most likely going with leupold mark iv illuminated mil dot 8.5x25x 50