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I think its funny how everyone keeps saying "Its a once in 500 year flood!" Well, it happened 84 years ago a lot bigger than this, and for all we know we could have a string of floods like we did in the 20s-30s did and have this problem every other year for a decade. This river IS going to flood when mother nature allows it to. Nothing that you, me, levees or pumps are gonna do about it. Mother nature has a funny way of teaching us that just as soon as we comfortable with the way we have tried to contain her, she shows us who is really in control.

hillhunter wrote:I think its funny how everyone keeps saying "Its a once in 500 year flood!" Well, it happened 84 years ago a lot bigger than this, and for all we know we could have a string of floods like we did in the 20s-30s did and have this problem every other year for a decade. This river IS going to flood when mother nature allows it to. Nothing that you, me, levees or pumps are gonna do about it. Mother nature has a funny way of teaching us that just as soon as we comfortable with the way we have tried to contain her, she shows us who is really in control.

Show me on the record books anywhere in history where the river stage at Vicksburg went over 57.5'.

Volume is one thing.... but elevation puts the force behind it.... and makes it spread out more... because of the lay of the land.

I'm just going by what they said the 27 flood got to... I thought that it was either A) higher than this or B) would have been if not for the levee break. And it just depends on where you are on the river if its a record or not. Also, I would say any records that are more than 100 yrs old aint that accurate and can change with time depending on where your guages are. All I was stating is that we don't really know what the heck a 500 year flood is, maybe you can go find an old Indian to tell us cause we werent even here.

Either way whether its a 500 yr flood or a once a yr flood, all in all we don't really control it that much. Wanna be really scared? What if the New Madrid quake decides to hit in the next ten days, then will all see just how much we don't control.

The 1927 flood reached 56.20 ft on 05/04/1927. The levees broke all up and down the river.

It had more total volume... (cubic feet per second) but it the flood of 2011 will go down as #1 in the record books for Vicksburg...... until next year anyway... LOL

Uhhhhh....before the levees were constructed, and before the newer, higher levees were constructed after the original ones failed, there is no way to determine how high the water would have risen within levees like exist today. We know that one of these big floods occurred before the levees were constructed, and thus have no way of being able to compare to today's flood. And with regard to the big flood after those levees were constructed ---the one that caused the levees to fail --- we know that the water got higher than the levees at that time. How much higher the water would have gone had the levee been higher then, who knows.

The point being made is that there is no way to historically conclude that there have been no floods of this magnitude within the last 500 years. All you can really say is that it is the biggest since the newer levees were constructed and ensuing measurements were kept.

The MS River, without the levees in place, created most of what is now Louisiana, and the fertile soils of the region known as the MS Delta. Thus, quite obviously, the MS River has been periodically flooding for eons. Through the flood control efforts of the COE and construction of levees and other water control structures, our country has attempted to harness and control the MS River. And in reliance upon this flood control system to work, people have located in and developed land that probably never should have been developed in the first place. Why? Because no matter what the COE constructs, it will NEVER be able to totally control the MS River and its tributaries/flood plains. And the reliance that people place in these efforts is misplaced. And when the inevitable happens ---like this year --- there will be folks blaming the COE for failing to do the impossible, and yet those claiming that we need to spend even more money to try to do the impossible. This scenario will be repeated when the next big flood event occurs. And it will. I don't wish for it to, and don't want it to, but it will nevertheless. Levees or not. Pumps or not.

Here are some novel suggestions for the future. Why not try to live and co-exist with the River, as opposed to continuing in vain to force the River to do what we want? Why not take corrective actions to the existing flood control systems that will allow the River to periodically flood from time to time with minimal property damage and loss of life? Such would involve creating more flood plains and deliberate breaches/bypasses of the existing levees, less channel dredging, and require better land use decisions within that flood plain. And why not be totally honest with our citizens about what realistically can be done and what cannot with respect to flood control ---and along those lines, adjust the projected flood plain areas to reflect reality. And after relocating and compensating landowners within the flood plain on a voluntary basis (not forcing anyone to give up their property to the government), if people still want to remain, or locate within and develop their property within those areas, it would be done at their risk with full knowledge of the risk(to the extent there is not already full knowledge of the risk).

If the levees had held in 1927 it was estimated the river would have reached 62.2 on the Vicksburg gauge.



This is the floodwall in Vicksburg. It's very close to where the Corps is supposed to be building a museum. I'm sure they'd have asked the city to remove it if they had issues with it.

I've seen this estimate in other places and possibly on this forum.

Po Monkey Lounger wrote:Uhhhhh....before the levees were constructed, and before the newer, higher levees were constructed after the original ones failed, there is no way to determine how high the water would have risen within levees like exist today. We know that one of these big floods occurred before the levees were constructed, and thus have no way of being able to compare to today's flood. And with regard to the big flood after those levees were constructed ---the one that caused the levees to fail --- we know that the water got higher than the levees at that time. How much higher the water would have gone had the levee been higher then, who knows.

The point being made is that there is no way to historically conclude that there have been no floods of this magnitude within the last 500 years. All you can really say is that it is the biggest since the newer levees were constructed and ensuing measurements were kept.

The MS River, without the levees in place, created most of what is now Louisiana, and the fertile soils of the region known as the MS Delta. Thus, quite obviously, the MS River has been periodically flooding for eons. Through the flood control efforts of the COE and construction of levees and other water control structures, our country has attempted to harness and control the MS River. And in reliance upon this flood control system to work, people have located in and developed land that probably never should have been developed in the first place. Why? Because no matter what the COE constructs, it will NEVER be able to totally control the MS River and its tributaries/flood plains. And the reliance that people place in these efforts is misplaced. And when the inevitable happens ---like this year --- there will be folks blaming the COE for failing to do the impossible, and yet those claiming that we need to spend even more money to try to do the impossible. This scenario will be repeated when the next big flood event occurs. And it will. I don't wish for it to, and don't want it to, but it will nevertheless. Levees or not. Pumps or not.

Here are some novel suggestions for the future. Why not try to live and co-exist with the River, as opposed to continuing in vain to force the River to do what we want? Why not take corrective actions to the existing flood control systems that will allow the River to flood from time to time with minimal property damage and loss of life? Such would involve creating more flood plains and deliberate breaches/bypasses of the existing levees, less channel dredging, and require better land use decisions within that flood plain. And why not be totally honest with our citizens about what realistically can be done and what cannot with respect to flood control ---and along those lines, adjust the projected flood plain areas to reflect reality. And after relocating and compensating landowners within the flood plain on a voluntary basis (not forcing anyone to give up their property to the government), if people still want to remain, or locate within and develop their property within those areas, it would be done at their risk with full knowledge of the risk(to the extent there is not already full knowledge of the risk).

You have NO idea what you are talking about. Where do you think crest forecasts come from. People in 27 knew what the river could do, like they do now, but with even better data from 27.
OVER 3 million acres are flooded in LA, MS, and AR right now,
(there is your periodically flooding) we are trying to live with the river and stay realistic with what the river is capable of. We are learning right now except you with your preconcieved notions.
I don't think any agency is trying to fool anybody on how dangerous this event is.
I commend the COE, they are working hard for us all just like the State and towns and private landowners.
While you sit and write a bunch of stupid words when you really don't have a FN clue.
Go fill a sand bag.

Again, for you "anti-pump whiners"....I am of the opinion that the COE knows a h3lluva lot more about the pros/cons of the pumps than lawyers, politicians and arm-chair engineers.

Again, this is straight from the Delta Council website.....

Quote: "Of special note to those in the Backwater Area, a member of the media asked the Corps of Engineers at a recent Delta Council meeting on Friday.....
Question: “How much storage would be available today, and what elevation would the Yazoo Backwater Area be today, if the Yazoo Backwater Pumps were in place?”

Corps of Engineers Response: “Instead of 92’ elevation today, the Yazoo Backwater Area would be 5 feet lower, with the pump running at 87’ elevation. We also expect that flood stages would be maintained below 91’ instead of going to 95’.”

Now, how in the h3ll can anybody argue about that???....it's a no-brainer!!!

The COE should tell the EPA to kiss booty, and that we're installing the frigging pumps, just as soon as the water goes down, for the betterment of the people of the MS Delta.

southdeltan wrote: I'm sure they'd have asked the city to remove it if they had issues with it.

Those markings on the floodwall were provided courtesy of the COE.
You just can't see the sign that states that since it is under water in that pic.

1010 wrote:While you sit and write a bunch stupid words when you really don't have a FN clue.

........ .........

really???

Simmer down guys...... It is.... what it is...... and we have no direct control of the situation.

There are only two things guaranteed in life.....

• You are going to pay taxes.
  You are going to die.

After that..... you have little control.

Po Monkey Lounger wrote: Here are some novel suggestions for the future. Why not try to live and co-exist with the River, as opposed to continuing in vain to force the River to do what we want? Why not take corrective actions to the existing flood control systems that will allow the River to periodically flood from time to time with minimal property damage and loss of life? Such would involve creating more flood plains and deliberate breaches/bypasses of the existing levees, less channel dredging, and require better land use decisions within that flood plain. And why not be totally honest with our citizens about what realistically can be done and what cannot with respect to flood control ---and along those lines, adjust the projected flood plain areas to reflect reality. And after relocating and compensating landowners within the flood plain on a voluntary basis (not forcing anyone to give up their property to the government), if people still want to remain, or locate within and develop their property within those areas, it would be done at their risk with full knowledge of the risk(to the extent there is not already full knowledge of the risk).

Nobody's gonna go for that. Its makes way too much sense. Besides we are humans, we can make nature do anything we want it to.

Pond

Po Monkey Lounger wrote:Through the flood control efforts of the COE and construction of levees and other water control structures, our country has attempted to harness and control the MS River. And in reliance upon this flood control system to work, people have located in and developed land that probably never should have been developed in the first place. Why? Because no matter what the COE constructs, it will NEVER be able to totally control the MS River and its tributaries/flood plains.

Respectfully, I think you are off base. I doubt anyone with the COE believes their purpose is to CONTROL the river. Rather, their efforts are aimed at making it more consistent, predictable, thereby allowing people to live WITH it. This is, in a way, the philosophy you've been preaching -- man adjusting to the river instead of the other way around. The more predictable the river is, the easier humans can adjust to it. Splitting hairs, maybe, but I really think the COE's mission is not as far off from what you think.

Using some basic logic and reason, I concluded as follows:

The point being made is that there is no way to historically conclude that there have been no floods of this magnitude within the last 500 years. All you can really say is that it is the biggest since the newer levees were constructed and ensuing measurements were kept.

And in response, it is proclaimed that I have no F'in clue, etc. Ok then, lets presume for the sake of argument that I am indeed as clueless as you say --- you wouldn't be the first or the last to think so. Where is YOUR proof that that this is the worst flood in the last 500 years? Any flood in the early 1900s is only approx 100 years ago. Hell, our country gained its independence from the British only approx 235 years ago. Has the COE been around that long ---making their measurements as far back as 1511? Did the Chickasaw and Choctaw indians have a COE?

You know, with all these really smert posters here, ya learn something new here everyday.

Po Monkey Lounger wrote: You know, with all these really smert posters here, ya learn something new here everyday.

you misspelled smart (and, i think i misspelled, mispelled).........i have nothing further to add, mind you, i just thought i'd point that out.....heck, i agree with you, i think, but i'm wishy-washy and prone to change. in any case, i live in brandon, i chose torndados and bad traffic over flooding.

gator