Lets start an argument

[cwink]

Everyone has a different defintion of unethical. To me there are 4 reasons to hunt.

1) Population Mangement
2) Food
3) Tradition
4) Sympathy - Yes Sympathy.

I read an article several years ago that really put in perspective of why we should hunt. You see deer don't have the same luxuries that we do when it comes to disease, illness and old age. If they get sick, or to weak to carry on they are destined for a horrible death. Either by coyotes, starvation, or other slow means of death. As a hunter, that is preparing to take a life, I feel it is my duty to make sure I make the kill as quickly and painless as possible. It may sound strange, but that is how I decide on what is ethical or not.

[RiverDuck]

Cwinkler, good post! I can agree with that to an extent. When I shoot a deer I also want it to be done as quickly and painlessly as possible, and if you hit one right, that will be the case. But a deer hit in the ear, or foot, or hidquarter, in my opinion, does not deserve to die, and its suffering will be very minimal, they are tough animals! You made a bad shot, or something unforseen happened, but thats just hunting.

In most cases, if you do not hit a deer well, the deer will LIVE. If you dont push a deer on a marginal hit you will recover it the majority of the time. If you give it ample time to expire and you do not recover it, there is a good chance you did not put a lethal shot on the animal and it will LIVE.

Its not about killing guys, its about hunting, and being out in the woods and spending time with friends and enjoying the rush when a big buck comes into view. And missing or not finding an animal is Hunting, plain and simple

[gator]

Seriously, who cares who else uses it?

Can’t imagine thumping some feisty drunk dude w/ sux when there’s stuff like ativan carrying indications for messes like that – particularly to “scare” them……….but, that is rankin general where the sheep are scared and the docs were just paroled, hehehe

We use it during codes fairly often for intubation purposes, but even then, we have to call central pharmacy due to the concern over some ignert nurse pushing it on the wrong pt at the wrong time…………..something about “probable death to pt” or somesuch.

Having said that, dunno if I’d want it on the end of my stick, while nodding off, waiting on some glorified goat to come by my corn pile.

On a lighter note, I’d love to have the physician’s name prescribing you chaps this stuff “for medical purposes”……………..blackmail is a GREAT THING, and ya never know when I might need a house in Montana (paid for, w/ some new "BEARDED CLAM" everynight).

Gator

[Chuckle12]

Well... I ain't a doctor, but I'll take a look.

Seriously, like gator said... who gives a rip what another guy is shooting. It's no more ethical or unethical unless you use it for the wrong reasons. It all ends in the same way with a bow... a dead deer. Poison just ends in less non-mortal wounds. I have shot it before, but don't now... although I've still got some in my hunting closet.

[lilwhitelie]

Cwinkler, good post! I can agree with that to an extent. When I shoot a deer I also want it to be done as quickly and painlessly as possible, and if you hit one right, that will be the case. But a deer hit in the ear, or foot, or hidquarter, in my opinion, does not deserve to die, and its suffering will be very minimal, they are tough animals! You made a bad shot, or something unforseen happened, but thats just hunting.

In most cases, if you do not hit a deer well, the deer will LIVE. If you dont push a deer on a marginal hit you will recover it the majority of the time. If you give it ample time to expire and you do not recover it, there is a good chance you did not put a lethal shot on the animal and it will LIVE.

Its not about killing guys, its about hunting, and being out in the woods and spending time with friends and enjoying the rush when a big buck comes into view. And missing or not finding an animal is Hunting, plain and simple

You are correct if you hit him in ear, foot etc, he will be fine if hit with anectine as well. You have to get a big dose in the animal to do the job. Now hit one in the gut he will die but a slow ad painful 1. Don't push him and find him don't work in 90 degrees in a thicket. Bad shots happen to the best. I know of a few lucky guys from primos that lost their tags due to draw blood and your hunt is over. With anectine they would have recovered these animals. No1 is perfect and the animals you pursue deserve the same. If you were shot thru the guts and could never receive medical care or faced with other debiliating disease wouldn't you want a quicker more ethical end to your suffering.

[lilwhitelie]

[quote="gator"]Seriously, who cares who else uses it?

Can’t imagine thumping some feisty drunk dude w/ sux when there’s stuff like ativan carrying indications for messes like that – particularly to “scare” them……….but, that is rankin general where the sheep are scared and the docs were just paroled, hehehe

We use it during codes fairly often for intubation purposes, but even then, we have to call central pharmacy due to the concern over some ignert nurse pushing it on the wrong pt at the wrong time…………..something about “probable death to pt” or somesuch.

Having said that, dunno if I’d want it on the end of my stick, while nodding off, waiting on some glorified goat to come by my corn pile.

Works wonders on drunks that need a come to jesus meeting. Enough to keep em paralyzed but can here every word has a way with magically calming them. NOt just for scaring but they also need other care they can't receive while fighting. I am sure at the miracle center things are done much the same except the orderlys run scared and the staircase is your "special place". hehe

[gator]

LWL, i prefer the north wing elevators, but point taken.

chuckles, that was my "pompous booty" post for the year. ain't but another 1.5 yrs and you'll know ALL ABOUT that (we'll call it 24/7 for ease of understanding), and it generally occurs at 1201 on the first day in july

i'm still wanting some "prescriber" names herah...............daddy needs a new set of golf clubs, pm if you'd like.

gator

[trey]

Cwinkler, good post! I can agree with that to an extent. When I shoot a deer I also want it to be done as quickly and painlessly as possible, and if you hit one right, that will be the case. But a deer hit in the ear, or foot, or hidquarter, in my opinion, does not deserve to die, and its suffering will be very minimal, they are tough animals! You made a bad shot, or something unforseen happened, but thats just hunting.

In most cases, if you do not hit a deer well, the deer will LIVE. If you dont push a deer on a marginal hit you will recover it the majority of the time. If you give it ample time to expire and you do not recover it, there is a good chance you did not put a lethal shot on the animal and it will LIVE.

Its not about killing guys, its about hunting, and being out in the woods and spending time with friends and enjoying the rush when a big buck comes into view. And missing or not finding an animal is Hunting, plain and simple

You are correct if you hit him in ear, foot etc, he will be fine if hit with anectine as well. You have to get a big dose in the animal to do the job. Now hit one in the gut he will die but a slow ad painful 1. Don't push him and find him don't work in 90 degrees in a thicket. Bad shots happen to the best. I know of a few lucky guys from primos that lost their tags due to draw blood and your hunt is over. With anectine they would have recovered these animals. No1 is perfect and the animals you pursue deserve the same. If you were shot thru the guts and could never receive medical care or faced with other debiliating disease wouldn't you want a quicker more ethical end to your suffering.

Riverduck,

Some athletes like to use steriods to gain that competitive advantage and provide them with security to maximize their abilities. It's the same with poison. It may be legal in MS but 1 out of 50 states isn't very good. If a 160 class walks up at 50 yards and quartered-in "lil white lie" will shoot and if he hits the deer it will die. Doesn't matter where he hits him. Did he kill the deer???? No, his poison did. Some hunters just can't handle it. They can't take it. They have to have that competitive advantage. Lil White Lie can't cope with the fact that a deer may get away. The deer could duck your arrow!!! Answer - be aware of how spooked the deer is when you release your arrow and aim low. You may hit a limb and deflect your shot. Answer - arrows aren't meant to be shot through limbs, so if there is a possiblity of hitting a limb, DON'T SHOOT. If you can't understand this then stop bowhunting and wait til November 18, and pick up your gun. I have shot big deer and I have lost them. But it didn't make me go and get poison, nor did it upset me to the point that I lost my confidence to make a better shot. It just taught me to focus a little more. Bowhunting was meant to be hard. If it was easy, everyone would do it. It's about getting close, knowing the wind, patterning the deer and making a quality shot and being proud of the hard work and effort you put in all off season and preseason and during the season in order to achieve a goal. It wasn't meant for getting 50 yards, upwind, from a trail and slinging some poison at hindquarter as a deer walks down the trail. How can you get excited about that???? There is a reason the Record Books don't allow entries taken with poison. But if it helps your ego, so be it. I promise you people don't shoot poison because it's 90 degrees in october and they are scared the deer will get away and spoil. The only reason people shot poison is for added insurance for their inability to work hard and get close and be patient and make a quality shot. That's it. You can say all you want about the 45-70, broadheads, quality of bows, sights, rest and everything else. That is what we call advancements in TECHNOLOGY. Poison is a chemical that gives you the competitive advantage. If poisin was meant to be used in bowhunting it wouldn't be called HUNTING!!!! It would be called KILLING!!!!!!!

[lilwhitelie]

Cwinkler, good post! I can agree with that to an extent. When I shoot a deer I also want it to be done as quickly and painlessly as possible, and if you hit one right, that will be the case. But a deer hit in the ear, or foot, or hidquarter, in my opinion, does not deserve to die, and its suffering will be very minimal, they are tough animals! You made a bad shot, or something unforseen happened, but thats just hunting.

In most cases, if you do not hit a deer well, the deer will LIVE. If you dont push a deer on a marginal hit you will recover it the majority of the time. If you give it ample time to expire and you do not recover it, there is a good chance you did not put a lethal shot on the animal and it will LIVE.

Its not about killing guys, its about hunting, and being out in the woods and spending time with friends and enjoying the rush when a big buck comes into view. And missing or not finding an animal is Hunting, plain and simple

You are correct if you hit him in ear, foot etc, he will be fine if hit with anectine as well. You have to get a big dose in the animal to do the job. Now hit one in the gut he will die but a slow ad painful 1. Don't push him and find him don't work in 90 degrees in a thicket. Bad shots happen to the best. I know of a few lucky guys from primos that lost their tags due to draw blood and your hunt is over. With anectine they would have recovered these animals. No1 is perfect and the animals you pursue deserve the same. If you were shot thru the guts and could never receive medical care or faced with other debiliating disease wouldn't you want a quicker more ethical end to your suffering.

Riverduck,

Some athletes like to use steriods to gain that competitive advantage and provide them with security to maximize their abilities. It's the same with poison. It may be legal in MS but 1 out of 50 states isn't very good. If a 160 class walks up at 50 yards and quartered-in "lil white lie" will shoot and if he hits the deer it will die. Doesn't matter where he hits him. Did he kill the deer???? No, his poison did. Some hunters just can't handle it. They can't take it. They have to have that competitive advantage. Lil White Lie can't cope with the fact that a deer may get away. The deer could duck your arrow!!! Answer - be aware of how spooked the deer is when you release your arrow and aim low. You may hit a limb and deflect your shot. Answer - arrows aren't meant to be shot through limbs, so if there is a possiblity of hitting a limb, DON'T SHOOT. If you can't understand this then stop bowhunting and wait til November 18, and pick up your gun. I have shot big deer and I have lost them. But it didn't make me go and get poison, nor did it upset me to the point that I lost my confidence to make a better shot. It just taught me to focus a little more. Bowhunting was meant to be hard. If it was easy, everyone would do it. It's about getting close, knowing the wind, patterning the deer and making a quality shot and being proud of the hard work and effort you put in all off season and preseason and during the season in order to achieve a goal. It wasn't meant for getting 50 yards, upwind, from a trail and slinging some poison at hindquarter as a deer walks down the trail. How can you get excited about that???? There is a reason the Record Books don't allow entries taken with poison. But if it helps your ego, so be it. I promise you people don't shoot poison because it's 90 degrees in october and they are scared the deer will get away and spoil. The only reason people shot poison is for added insurance for their inability to work hard and get close and be patient and make a quality shot. That's it. You can say all you want about the 45-70, broadheads, quality of bows, sights, rest and everything else. That is what we call advancements in TECHNOLOGY. Poison is a chemical that gives you the competitive advantage. If poisin was meant to be used in bowhunting it wouldn't be called HUNTING!!!! It would be called KILLING!!!!!!!

SO Mr. Trey ol mighty buckmaster so wise and full of wisdom enlighten me. Have you ever shot through limbs or straight down in the dark and wonder where did I hit him?? HMMMM Oh you are so ethical. That help your ego to not find that deer or say I had to hit him he was right under my tree sowhat if it was dark? Yes I shoot it to aid in recovery all times of the year but especially early on. Anectine doesnt make bowhunting easier as you stated if done correctly. ANd steroids are illegal and anectine isnt. Horrible comparison trey. I hunt and I kill, you hunt and you wound big whoop. Do it your way and I will mine. Difference is I will have something to show and you just a GREEN arrow!!! BUt then again if your across the fence they aint your deer anyway!!! What an ethical hunter you are!!!! Ol mighty buckmaster with your 700 dollar cameras and a 10 dollar wheelbarrow. What a setup. Ms. Laquita Washington wants those summit tree steps out of her persimmon tree you peepin tom. Glad to see you made it back from Jena.

[lilwhitelie]

Be aware of how spooked a deer is???? OMG you really are a deer whisperer. Glad you can know how each deer is feeling and have ample time to tell if he will jump the string etc. You are gifted and far more advanced than TECHNOLOGY could ever make you.