No Duck Theories

[mallardhunter]

Quite possibly. Fewer hunters means fewer gun barrels pointed at them, hence more survival and less pressure. But here's the catch: the vast majority of waterfowl conservation proponents are those same hunters raising the levels of hunting pressure; end result being less money/funding to save/create/enhance habitat.
But, primarily, fewer duck hunters (especially yankees) is a good thing for all true waterfowl hunters. Just ask anyone who paid visit to a severely overcrowded management area.

The survival of waterfowl depends on a lot more than the number of gun barrels pointed at them in a given year. As you wisely pointed out, it's the hunters who fund the habitat which in the long run is more important than the hunting. Given the habitat, the ducks can bounce back quickly - even from over-hunting, which I don't think is happening.
In the long run, fewer duck hunters hurt the ducks and endanger duck hunting in general. We are a small enough minority anyway; reducing our numbers doesn't help us. Reducing the number of duck hunters will reduce the amount and quantity of available wintering habitat - which sends the ducks back north stressed - which results in poor nesting success. Same result for the breeding habitat.
Reducing the number of duck hunters to stop overcrowding on your favorite WMA is short-sighted.

[mallardhunter]

Simply put,it we went to a 30/3 season instead of a 60/6 season,throughout the entire flyway it would impact the nunbers of ducks heading back to breed even more than my original post estimated because I left out the reduction in limits.There would actually be only 21-24 ducks killed with 30/3 as opposed to 90 with 60/6.

I don't have the figures here,and I don't have the time to find them (I'm working out of town) ,but if you don't think that sending that many more ducks back north to breed would be significant,I think you need to rethink things.

So, in spite of every professional's opinion that "You can't stockpile ducks", you think we can? I would gently suggest that you research "compensatory mortality" as it relates to hunting and setting hunting seasons until you thoroughly understand the basis of all hunting season-setting and bag limit-setting processes in the US.

If you halt hunting or otherwise slow it down, other forms of mortality will merely take it's place until the species reaches the carrying capacity of the land. Hence, the phrase, "You cannot stockpile ducks". Not shooting them will simply mean they die of other causes.

You either don't understand this or don't believe it. This is the science by which all hunting is allowed and regulated in the US.

As for your black magic-gov't conspiracy theory statement,here's my opinion.Those of you who believe this problem is based totally on weather problems,need to get your heads out of the sand.While the weather is affecting the migration,it's not even close to being the only,or even the main,part of the problem.Those of us who have been hunting long enough to remember back as far as 30 years or more,can remember some bad years,but nothing like what's been happening lately.

Gee, I can remember back more than 30 years of hunting ducks 5-7 days a week for the entire season. You ain't talking to a kid here, and I have no idea of how old you are or how much duck hunting experience you have. The sky isn't falling. It's just the weather. Ask yourself a few questions, assuming you've been at this for 30 years at least:
When's the last time you broke ice?
When's the last season you drove to hunt in the snow or hunted in the snow?
When's the last time you backed down ice-covered launch ramps?
When's the last time breaking ice was a daily occurrence during duck season - even in the South?
When's the last season you broke ice on opening day?
How often have you hunted when the states north of you were setting RECORD HIGH TEMPERATURES as late as early January?
How often have you hunted when the states north of you were setting records for NO SNOW ON THE GROUND as late as early January?

My head is completely out of the sand and smart enough to realize that when we are seeing records being broken in the northern states for no snow and high temperatures, that the weather is playing a role like we have never seen before - hence the broken records!

[mudsucker]

AMEN, MallardHunter Good questions for the boys to ponder

[chopper30]

That is what I keep saying! Someone just put it better than me. Nice job mallardhunter!

[RIP EM]

Hey all of this if fun to read !

Keep it coming fellas ! No doubt about it,... we are simply waiting on the "cycle of life" to swing back our, (or should I say, the ducks) way !

The key to hunting success is,........ TO KEEP HUNTING !

Be there when it does happen, for whatever reason,.... Be it a super cold winter,.... Be it a record book hatch,........ Be it putting some pressure on no hunt zones !

I DON'T GIVE A RATS FAT booty,.... AS TO "WHY" WE HAVE DUCKS,....JUST AS LONG AS WE DO !

AND EVENTUALLY,...... WE WILL !

I'LL BE THERE WAITIN ON EM ! HOW BOUT YALL ??????

Rip Em !

[cajun squealer]

[quote="mallardhunter
Reducing the number of duck hunters to stop overcrowding on your favorite WMA is short-sighted.[/quote]

My comment on overcrowded WMAs had little to do w/ my own situation. It was made for the sake of those who have had such bad experiences at places like the Greenwood area WMAs. I've heard many horror stories, although some do make for some high comedy, about what goes on when the masses show up at the boat ramp. It is for this very reason that I have no intention of hunting any of these circuses so long as the crowds exist. Unfourtunately, this may mean never if the popular trend continues to gain momentum. This is supposed to be a sport of man vs. duck, not man vs. yahoos set up 50 yards away vs. duck. I just hate to see such a great sport loose its appeal because of the presense of such fools. But for some it just seems to fuel the fire. Who knows? It's probably just me not wanting to be identified with part of the "in thing to do" crowd. I enjoy sharing these experiences with others, but dang! Enough is enough!

[sportsman450]

So, in spite of every professional's opinion that "You can't stockpile ducks", you think we can?

If you halt hunting or otherwise slow it down, other forms of mortality will merely take it's place until the species reaches the carrying capacity of the land.

My head is completely out of the sand and smart enough to realize that when we are seeing records being broken in the northern states for no snow and high temperatures, that the weather is playing a role like we have never seen before - hence the broken records!

First-These would be the "professionals" that have gotten us in this mess?
Oh yeah,we're not in a mess.It's just the weather.

Second-I have little doubt that when we reach the carrying capacity of the land that other forms of mortality will take over.If you truly believe we're there now,I've got some great farm land about 60 miles south of Biloxi I'll let you have cheap.Got a lot of ducks down there too.

Finally-Random records are broken all the time.If you don't remember warm winters 20-30 years ago,your memory is pretty selective.

[sportsman450]

When's the last time you broke ice?
When's the last season you drove to hunt in the snow or hunted in the snow?
When's the last time you backed down ice-covered launch ramps?
When's the last time breaking ice was a daily occurrence during duck season - even in the South?
When's the last season you broke ice on opening day?
How often have you hunted when the states north of you were setting RECORD HIGH TEMPERATURES as late as early January?
How often have you hunted when the states north of you were setting records for NO SNOW ON THE GROUND as late as early January?

My head is completely out of the sand and smart enough to realize that when we are seeing records being broken in the northern states for no snow and high temperatures, that the weather is playing a role like we have never seen before - hence the broken records!

1-Dec 2002.The last time my health allowed me to hunt ducks.There was ice everywhere,but the ducks weren't here.
2-Jan.1997
3-Don't use a boat.
4-NEVER
5-NEVER
6-Don't know about records,but we killed plenty of ducks in the 60s and 70s in shirtsleeve weather,and was warm up north too.
7-Again,when it's warm above us,the snow melts.
8-EVIDENTLY NOT!!!

Why some people have such a hard time admitting WE are partially to blame is a mystery to me.Greed is a terrible thing.Is your need to hunt X number of days and kill X number of ducks so great that you'll justify anything in order to do it?You can try to rationalize all you want,but it's NOT JUST THE WEATHER!!!

[SoftCall]

S450 - I wouldn't assume these folks are saying that weather is the only variable. It is a strong one without doubt.

I hunted ducks in the 70's too. I also remember freezing my ass off some days. I also remember fewer duck holes, more ice, less refuge....the list from the good old days goes on.

If everyone one feels so strongly about 60/6 being wrong, what makes 30/3 right...your opinion (and that's ok)??

Some other observations/questions..

1. You should start hunting out of a boat so you can go.
2. You missed the snow of about 4 seasons ago...10 inches in Greenwood. Great hunting...new ducks pushed by the front...slushed the fields then they froze 2.5 inches..open water was awesome. Fields thawed and they were awesome.
3. You evidently keep good journals. What years in the 60's and 70's were the best shirt sleeve years?

[sportsman450]

Softcall-Most of the late 60s and the 70s were about the same for us.Our hunting was affected by water more than it was by temperature.

I've moved twice recently,and I can't find my journals,but one stands out in my memory.On one hunt killed 0,and in my notes had written still no water.A couple of days later,after a big rain,killed 4 greenheads and 2 gw teal.In my notes I had written-a whole lot of new water-ducks everywhere.

I too froze my ass in the 70s,but it wasn't this mythical "cold all the time" that people are dreaming of now,and it wasn't frozen and snow covered up north all the time.

I remember that snow.I think it was the year I broke my back.

I'm so fat now that there aren't a whole lot of boats I'd feel safe in.Maybe Mallardchaser's War Eagle?Bwahahahaha

I'm determined to get in better shape this year so I can join the game again.I keep tellin Mallardchaser that there will be ducks the year I start huntin again.Hopefully,this will be the year.

[SoftCall]

That's 120 points

Shot that 4th Greenhead last I assume

Man that system made a lot of sense. Had to have a Phd in nuclear physics to understand it.

I think everyone agrees that water is an important variable too...too little is bad and too much is bad.

and YES...that boat could haul all of Noah's pairs!

[crow]

1974-75 season
I lived in Greenville, first year of marriage (wife actually sent someone looking for me one day when I didn't come home on time...she has learned since then), first year I joined Ducks Unlimited, Billy Boone from Leland invited me to the banquet where they showed a film narrated by John Wayne. (He owned funeral homes in Leland and Greenville) I hunted the river (went 8 times with a commercial fisherman I met...named Charlie) , area lakes, private land all over, and Delta National (a bunch).

Hotter than a Saturday night ho all season, very little water right up to the end of the season. Notes indicate I killed 12 ducks (almost all mallards and wood ducks, never even saw a gadwall or widgeon back then) until the last week of the season. I took a week of vacation and hunted with my Dad. It rained a ton. We hunted the South Greentree from a boat. Had to come in off the river because everything was under water. Killed limits every day for 4 days. Hunted the last two days in the Yazoo River floodwaters off 49N in front of MCC in Yazoo City (Mr. Black's property at that time. Now it's catfish ponds.) Killed limits both days.

Big floods came in February and covered the Delta from Greenville to Yazoo...nothing but a big lake all the way. Ducks came with the water that year, I have no idea what the weather above us was. It was solid water and ducks over the whole Delta (lots of levees broke that year with sand boils). I have never seen before or since as many ducks between Anguilla and Louise. All I know is that it was hotter than all get-out all winter. I have a picture of my Daddy in a camo tshirt in the boat driving it onto the trailer from one of our hunts in Delta National. Almost no ducks at all until the last week of the season, then they were everywhere for the next month and a half. Went back north when the water went down in March.

This is all synopsised from my journals from that time.

All this to say...It's been weird before! All this was just before the population crash and reduced season and limits. Followed the 10 pintail and 10 teal seasons.

[sportsman450]

That's 120 points

Shot that 4th Greenhead last I assume

Yep! It's funny,but a greenhead or even the occasional hen (90pts),was always the last one killed.

I remember one year somebody started a rumor that the feds were usin a thermometer to see which duck was killed last.Right!

[SoftCall]

Crow - interesting enough, Jan 1975 had some of the heaviest snow on record for the month of Jan since 1897 in SD at over 18 inches. Actual annual amounts were also 25% above the median snowfall. Approx 40% of the SD snowfall for the 1974 - 1975 winter fell in January. When did the season end that year?

Also, MO snowfalls for the year were WELL above the long term average.

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/lsx/climate/avgsnow.htm

Now, I realize that this isn't the only variable, but I have to assume that we got rain when they got snow and the combined addition of water here and snowfall north created ideal conditions for the late season.

It's only one year but hey....

[mudsucker]

Sportsman450, Try the atkins diet. It works pretty good. Good luck to you so you can get back after them. I droped 16-18 or so pounds by just cutting out bresd, pasta, rice(hard for a SE La. boy to do!) and sugary type foods like beets,potatoes, corn, beans, etc...... I know, it does'nt leave a whole lot to eat. I did not give up the beer but drink light beer any not many of them(used to hammer 'em).