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I have always done back first then overs but I have a dog that I am trying to teach hand signals and he will not do backs. He will sit but I can not get him to go back he returns to heel and then you can send him off. I did force to pile with him like all my other dogs berfore teaching the back command. I was told over the weekend to try overs then backs. I understand the a dog returning to heel shows that I put to much presure on him when teaching the heel command. We have been doing this for about 3 to 4 weeks now and its getting old and I'm about to go crazy.

my opinion so take it for what its worth...and you may have already tried this.

But I would run to the back pile four or five times with white bumpers to help ID that pile. on the sixth time, I would whistle sit him as close to the pile as you dare...make sure you give him room to sit and not be on the pile. I would then cut the distance between him and I down to approx half of what it was, take two or three steps to your right, toss a bumper to the back pile. As soon as he looks back at you give him a verbal right back. Build on the confidence from that point and increase distance to carry the cast and distance between you and him.

Like I said, its my opinion on how I would address the issue. If you have already tried that, then I guess we'll go back to the drawing board.

Good Luck!

You can also walk dog to back pile and have him watch you toss a bumper to the pile then heel him to the pitchers mound and then cast him back.

bustercat64 wrote:I have always done back first then overs but I have a dog that I am trying to teach hand signals and he will not do backs. He will sit but I can not get him to go back he returns to heel and then you can send him off. I did force to pile with him like all my other dogs berfore teaching the back command. I was told over the weekend to try overs then backs. I understand the a dog returning to heel shows that I put to much presure on him when teaching the heel command. We have been doing this for about 3 to 4 weeks now and its getting old and I'm about to go crazy.

Let me list the steps I take as a regular progression, and you tell me if you did it anything like this, okay?

1. Went through all the steps of FF from "Hold", to ear pinch/fetch, stick fetch, e-collar condition to fetch, Walking fetch.
2. Mini-pile; 3 bumpers in a row to combine the tasks of obedience with those of FF - fetch and recall on rope.
3. Full pile on a rope to assure low pressure control, and to train the dog to manage more bumpers effectively.
4. Forcing: from my side, en route, Back-cast to pile. All of this until the dog is virtually magnetized for the pile.

Then we teach Back as the first cast in 3-handed casting; no piles...just one bumper a few feet (not yards) behind the dog. When he's casting reliably we introduce 2-hands Back; Back in both right and left rotation.

All that is done before he sees any Over casts. Is that familiar?

EvanG

I have done everything listed above I stopped evrything last week and went back to just marks and fun bumpers but before I stopped I even changed places that I do pile work I have tried everything that I know of.

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bustercat64 wrote:I have done everything listed above I stopped evrything last week and went back to just marks and fun bumpers but before I stopped I even changed places that I do pile work I have tried everything that I know of.

Did you do it in that order? Moving to a different location means starting over each time. What makes working in the same place effective for Basic drills like this is the familiarity of the place. Your dog needs to be absolutely sure where he is to go when sent.

He should be sent to the bumper a few times from your side first. Then he should be forced to it several times before Back casting begins. If you are using only one bumper for Back casts, why would he go elsewhere? Where does he go, if not to the pre-identified bumper?



This way? On this scale?

EvanG

You bought that sponsorship yet Evan? Only thing you add to this board is bait. Bait to by your stuff. You give just enough info to suck them in......good job.

99beers wrote:You bought that sponsorship yet Evan? Only thing you add to this board is bait. Bait to by your stuff. You give just enough info to suck them in......good job.

Wherever you appear there's a troll convention nearby.



Never anything worthwhile to add. Just another few incoherent words to vomit.

EvanG

99beers...no one cares about your rambling. If you can't post something in response to the actual post and answer the original poster's question, then just stay away. Evan has actually helped with many different things that I have needed help with. No one cares that you post a reply for ever post that Evan makes. Dude get a life.

By the way bustercat...how's ole Pearl doing? I miss that heifer. Last I heard she was master level dog. Hope all is well with you. Give me a shout sometime.

99 beers stick a sock in it. Put the beer down for a while. You sound like a spoiled child.

Mark Sehon wrote:99 beers stick a sock in it. Put the beer down for a while. You sound like a spoiled child.

Yea,and you don't want a spankin from Sehon ! LOL!!

She is doing fine the last I heard I got rid of her in a trade but I think she is still for sale the last time I saw her she doing right at Master level stuff i wanted to keep her but with 2 young dogs I did not have time to push her along. She will make someone a great all around dog.

D Boe wrote:By the way bustercat...how's ole Pearl doing? I miss that heifer. Last I heard she was master level dog. Hope all is well with you. Give me a shout sometime.