Moving past the basics

[B3]

Based on a question in the other thread I'll start a new one. Typically a dog spends about 6-8 months with a pro where he is introduced to marking mechanics, steadiness, and yard drills to begin handling on blinds. That will likely take the dog through TT and swim by. I suspect that after pattern blinds and an intro to basic cold blinds he would commonly go home.

What do folks do to move forward past the basics described above?

Bill

[blgros1]

Thanks Bill. So let's hear it fellas.

[mfalkner]

Have subscribed this thread....

[blgros1]

Lets use a more direct approach.

How do you get a dog to quit "Shopping" the pile??? I guess there are a lot bigger issues that I could be dealing with than this but it just kind of gets to me. I recall him immediately after he gets to pile, but dude is like a kid in a candy shop. Maybe he is just counting them so he knows how many times he has to go back.. ha

[BucksandDucks]

Bill, I would think that the next step after what you have described above would be to start introducing these "taught behaviors" of the yard and start applying them to the field. Whether that be introductions to cold blinds with factors involved or introductions to marking concepts. I think this is a very important time in a handler's and dog's career. This is where I feel an inexperienced handler/trainer can ruin a dog. You must remember to take it slow and work through these with minimal pressure. Yes you have taught these in the yard and probably made corrections with pressure, but you can't expect or demand perfection in the field in these early stages. I try to work through all issues with attrition and as little pressure as possible, unless it's a blatant refusal of some type. I think its very important to remember that you are training/teaching the dog and should reinforce commands accordingly.

as for shopping at the pile, I feel like that should be taken care of in T work. Either with a rope of collar, give a tug or nick with a "here". As they mature they will understand what "here" means and the shopping will diminish.

[Duck Chaser]

Lets use a more direct approach.

How do you get a dog to quit "Shopping" the pile??? I guess there are a lot bigger issues that I could be dealing with than this but it just kind of gets to me. I recall him immediately after he gets to pile, but dude is like a kid in a candy shop. Maybe he is just counting them so he knows how many times he has to go back.. ha

May be. Nothing wrong with the shopping getting to you. May just take a few here/nicks. If OB is solid, and he is just trying you on, he should understand the correction for not coming when called, and that may clean it up. Its technically of a breakdown of fetch/hold, which is just extended in pile work. To teach a shopper how to handle the pile, you'll need a rope and gloves. Space your bumpers like a ladder, 5-6 ft apart. Review fetch from ground. Send to your ladder/pile with "fetch". Use rope to prevent him from going past first bumper he reaches. Then, replace "fetch" with "back". Should help him understand that "back" means fetch/hold the first bumper he reaches. Then, a here/nick when needed.

I've never done it, but having him hold a bumper while doing some heel/sit/here in the yard with bumpers laying around may desensitize him to the candy shop, and give you a chance to correct for failing to hold, if he switches.

[Jay Dufour]

Bill, I would think that the next step after what you have described above would be to start introducing these "taught behaviors" of the yard and start applying them to the field. Whether that be introductions to cold blinds with factors involved or introductions to marking concepts. I think this is a very important time in a handler's and dog's career. This is where I feel an inexperienced handler/trainer can ruin a dog. You must remember to take it slow and work through these with minimal pressure. Yes you have taught these in the yard and probably made corrections with pressure, but you can't expect or demand perfection in the field in these early stages. I try to work through all issues with attrition and as little pressure as possible, unless it's a blatant refusal of some type. I think its very important to remember that you are training/teaching the dog and should reinforce commands accordingly.

as for shopping at the pile, I feel like that should be taken care of in T work. Either with a rope of collar, give a tug or nick with a "here". As they mature they will understand what "here" means and the shopping will diminish.

EXACTLY ! Note : If you are the " hothead" type ,do transition with a dummy collar.Collar corrections for cast refusals or scolloping will get you in a hole you dont wanna be in.

[B3]

So after the basics described above, we would look at transitioning those basic skills to the field. Many have the misconception that since their dog can run a T pattern well in the yard that they can now handle in the field and run blind retrieves. That is not typically the case as most people will find when they go hunting for the first time out of basics that their dog looks clueless when sent on anything more than the most basic of blind retrieves.

Most will start teaching pattern blinds, usually with 3 or 5 legs fanning out from the same starting point. After they learn the pattern blinds you might add a mark off to the side. This adds a new variable. You can pick the mark first and then run a pattern blind. If they get good at that, you can make it a poison bird......shoot the mark,leave it laying and then run the blind. After pick up the pattern blind then let him pick up the mark. This is a big step and you will then get a chance to use the casting you taught in T work.

I'll get back to you on cold blinds.

[blgros1]

Thanks for the suggestions. This type of stuff is what really helps someone like myself that doesnt have professional training abilities. my trainer did a great job, but I'd like to continue my dog's progression as much as possible until I decide to bring him back to trainer for another round of formal training.