DuckSouth.com

Alright guys, I'm a new member. I've got a 19 week old black male. Powderhill's High Life. (Miller)He's nuts about the dummy. I've got him steady at the line and he won't break for nothin'. I'm almost afraid he's had that lesson too early. From here, I'm looking for a training guide without the e collar.

I know I need the collar for finishing work, but he picks up the lessons so dang quick, I just don't know where to go. I've contacted my local HRC, but I haven't gotten with any of the members yet.

Ya'll have any suggestions on a training program? Anything I should NOT do yet?

Also, he'll sit on the whistle when he's 5 feet from me, but not when he's excited. I'm not going to give him a command I can't enforce, so when should I expect him to sit on the whistle on retrieve?

Thanks, and I look forward to talking to you guys with 300,000 posts!

Chris

Might wanna rethink the no ecollar program. Been there done that.

Chris,

If your in Thompson Station, youve got a lot of good resources in people in that area. One of the nicest public training grounds in the country is at Poole Knobs in Lavergne. There are two very active clubs based on those grounds. Music City HRC (UKC) and Middle Tennessee (AKC) for bothHunt tests and field trails. There are a good many club members that train every day of teh week there. Dont be shy, if you see a group training introduce yourself and join in. Everyone is always looking for training partners just be prpared to help throw birds, set up, take down, etc.

I am from Franklin and go back to Poole Knobs several times throughout the year to train and run hunt tests there. There is a field trial coming up soon which would be a great opportunity to meet some club members. Even though its a field trial a lot of the members are involved with the Hunt Test club as well.

As far a resources Evan Graham has a pretty easy to follow program that will build a finished retriever and then some. Top Dog is another good one that can help a first timer with collar use for the operator and the dog. Best advice is to hook up with a training group and there are plenty of dog people in your area. In fact there is an amateur field trial guy in Thompson Station or Spring Hill. I'll look him up and pass his info along to you.

I'm not advocating it by any means but my BLM iust turned 2 and is nearing his HRCH. He has never had a e-collar on nor do I beat or mistreat him in any way. It can be done but it takes a lot of patience and is a lot more time consuming than with a collar. We just passed our second finished test at Southern Flight last weekend. I can say that he is a very happy dog unlike some of the other dogs I see come to the line.

Mine was starting to run Finished before she ever had an e-collar strapped on her, had her HR with straights. It can be done, but I would not do it that way again. She is still happy as a clam WITH an ecollar. I don't think presence of/lack of an ecollar makes a dog "happy" or not. That is the direct influence of the trainer, and to some extent the natural personality of the dog not the tool. Chuck and Travis's dogs are plenty happy. You can bet my next one goes through a formal CC program pronto, its much easier on the dog!

You can definitely train a nice dog without the collar but its easier to do some of the more technical aspects needed for advanced dog games with the collar. Its a personal choice." No collar " appeals to me for the same reason I like to hunt with a bow or catch a fish on a fly I tied myself. That said, if you want to win or even excel at todays retriever games you'll need an e-collar program.

Bill

Why do so many people get bent out of shape at the mere mention of the word e-collar? I strap mine on the dog every time we train, but seldom use it. It's more of a reminder to him that I'm in control more than anything. An occasional nick for obedience problems is about all I use it for. Proper training involves both attrition (which I mostly use) and the split second collar correction that is sometimes needed in the field (slow sit to whistle). I think if a dog is properly conditioned to the collar you actually use it a lot less than most realize.

I'd rather slam my 'johnson' in a car door than try to train one without a collar, the methods you have to utilize without a collar can get to the point of being downright brutal.

You don't have to be brutal but a lot depends on the temperament of the dog. A couple of years ago I trained a couple of dogs for others and did one without the collar. It went a little slower but was pretty satisfying. At 10 months she was doing solid doubles land and water, solid delivery, and simple 100 yd cold land blinds. The trouble would have come with cheating singles, water blinds,etc- she went home after that.

DIB, I get the opposite impression. When someone says they want to train a dog without a collar then its assumed they are crazy by everyone thats training with a collar.

Bill

DIB and B3,
You're both right just depends on which side on the issue you reside. I agree with DIB on one thing though.. Just cause you've got a collar on a dog all the time don't mean your burning it the whole time it's on the dog.

Train without the collar just about 5-6 days a week! I reinforce known commands with my Dogtra 5-6 days a week too. I'm too damn old to be running all over creation chasing these dogs down to administer a correction that would be 30 seconds to 5 minutes late!

I use an e-collar, but kind of like DIB........I have it on every time I train and even when I hunt. I very seldom ever use, but it sure is nice when you need to correct when the dog is at a distance.

Really, the thing is, that I'm not against the e-collar, I just don't want to do the dog wrong by making a mistake with it.....That will come with experience with the training group.

Evan Graham has a thousand different dvd's and top dog has 1. Would top dog be a good start? At this point, I'm trying just to get him to bring a dove or duck back.


I'm going to Final Flight to check it out and at that point I'll decide how serious I'll take his training.. I might get hooked...Thanks for the replies!

I was just going through some old post waiting to head to the duck blind and thought I'd update.

I got with some guys with Music City HRC and started a training program. Miller is now CC"d and FF and we're starting force to pile on monday. I'd like to have HR by next winter!

He's doing great!

clmiller wrote:I was just going through some old post waiting to head to the duck blind and thought I'd update.

I got with some guys with Music City HRC and started a training program. Miller is now CC"d and FF and we're starting force to pile on monday. I'd like to have HR by next winter!

He's doing great!

Congrats! Glad you got hooked up with good folks to help steer you in the right direction.